The value of unarmed hand to hand training?

[Zeroptsdown]

Hi all,

Been training for a few years in a very traditional Shotokan dojo, where we also do lots of Judo and Ju Jitsu. We train four times a week and the emphasis is on self defense.

We do a lot of contact work, so I always seem to have some form of an injury.

This got me thinking as to the actual value of unarmed hand to hand training (including all styles and forms, not only traditional).

Is it still relevant in todays world, where you are most likely to be confronted by numerous attackers and most of them are armed.

I.e. If you are attacked (mugged/home invasion etc) by 4 or 5 guys and at least two of them are armed with a weapon of sorts, what is the real value of unarmed hand to hand?

Is it better to dedicate the time to something else, like improving your shooting?

[voodoo_man]

There is rarely a bad reason to train hand tobhand, in fact I would suggest hand to hand to most people as a solid way to inoculate yourself from being afraid of pain or confrontation.

I did Shotokon for years when I was younger, its a really good discipline-based, kata driven, martial art. I would suggest getting into something a littke bit more intense so that you may benefit more from your training. MMA mixed with various forms of nonsport/noncompetition BJJ is great. It not only gives you a good workout but it gives you the confidence to get hit and keep moving.

When you talk about shooting, what exactly are you referring to? CCW type shooting? Marksmanship? Wanting to becone a door kicking NASA assassination? Figuring out exactly what you want out of training is very important and it provides you with goals and us with a direction to send you.

[BehindBlueI's]

Is it still relevant in todays world, where you are most likely to be confronted by numerous attackers and most of them are armed.

While these incidents get the attention, the good ol' fashion one one one mugging or assault is still more likely than multiple attackers. I would also say I've seen PLENTY of people win vs an armed opponent while unarmed. Over the years and just off the top of my head I've seen cases such as the cab driver who broke a robber's nose and KO'd him when he tried to rob him at knife point, gas station clerk disarm and break a guy's gun (Jennings, so...you know), hillbilly beat a guy senseless after getting shot in the stomach, fat chick beat the brakes off a guy who pistol whipped her and sent the dude to the hospital, etc. etc. Very few were trained, most were just strong (or gravity assisted) and willing to take action.

Armed =/= winning. Armed = more options.

[LSP552]

It also gives you options for events that don't rise to deadly force, and might prevent it from become one.

[60167]

It also gives you options for events that don't rise to deadly force, and might prevent it from become one.

If your only tool was a hammer, every problem will start to look like a nail...

[BJXDS]

Hi all,

Been training for a few years in a very traditional Shotokan dojo, where we also do lots of Judo and Ju Jitsu. We train four times a week and the emphasis is on self defense.

We do a lot of contact work, so I always seem to have some form of an injury.

This got me thinking as to the actual value of unarmed hand to hand training (including all styles and forms, not only traditional).

Is it still relevant in todays world, where you are most likely to be confronted by numerous attackers and most of them are armed.

I.e. If you are attacked (mugged/home invasion etc) by 4 or 5 guys and at least two of them are armed with a weapon of sorts, what is the real value of unarmed hand to hand?

Is it better to dedicate the time to something else, like improving your shooting?

I think some type of personal defense, hand to hand training is very important, and should be incorporated to an overall life style so that you can protect your self and family. You must decide what level of commitment and possible injury you are willing to accept in order to accomplish this. The older you get the harder it will to physically train in contact sports/personal protection, and the possibility of injury from that training increases. In addition the ability to maintain the desired level of performance continuous practice is required. Skills of any type degrade over time if not used. Any situation can be "what ifed" into success or failure. I would select the scenarios I fell are most likely to occur and train for those. The unknown and biggest problem is we don't get to choose when or how bad people will try to do bad things to us. The best thing I can do is try to be prepared as possible. I hope this helps, there are several lines that need to be drawn and only you can draw them.

[BaiHu]

As a martial artist in a "may issue" state, you can't go wrong with studying unarmed combatives. Take yourself to an ECQC class to see holes in your training. Work the MUC. As guys above have said, a lot of good can come from good awareness, vocalization and some solid unarmed knowledge.

[Robinson]

I think it has value that goes beyond physical preparedness -- especially if the place where you train emphasizes practical application. Even in a scenario where weapons are involved you may end up needing H2H skills. Plus it helps with building a confidence level.

You are ahead of the game since you already recognize that martial arts training doesn't prepare you for every potential encounter. But IMO the positives far outweigh the negatives assuming good training.

[45dotACP]

Lots of good advice here. Remember that if you can punch someone's face or dislocate their arm, it's a better outcome than killing them, and especially if they are "unarmed".

Want my advice? It's the same as shooting.

I'd start competing. Your training buddies all have the same experience, instructors, and training partners as you do. Compete against someone from a different school or a different background (Sambo, Catch wrestling, BJJ, etc) and you'll broaden your skillset, even if your arm is never raised at the end of the match.

[Totem Polar]

Straight up: I believe that some basic power generation/striking training and some stand-up grappling skills are all but mandatory for people carrying a weapon. There's pretty much no downside to being able to knock someone out with ether hand, or knowing some ways to keep other's hands off your important bits and your gear.