Winchester Q4369 Bonded 180gr 40 S&W

[SamAdams]

I've got a couple of 40 pistols that I've had for a long time & shoot well. For the reasons well known to others on this forum, I've been focusing on the 9mm currently however. But, I would still like to have a few boxes of defensive 40 ammo for my pistols in that chambering. They could be useful for outdoor use up in the mountains where large predators roam (black bear & mountain lion). -- Winchester Q4369 180 gr 40 S&W can be found at good prices. Its supposed to be from a federal contract overrun and is supposedly the same as the Q4355 (which is on 'The List'), but I haven't found a credible confirmation of that.

I did a search and didnt find anything on the forum, so thought I'd ask. Is this stuff good to go ? Thanks

[gruntjim]

I tested it a few years ago out of a G23, in clothed water jugs. The RA40B, the Q4369 and the 180 grain Gold Dot all expanded and penetrated into the third jug. The rounds all expanded to around .70 caliber. The outstanding performance was from the 180 grain HST, in that it expanded to almost .80 caliber. Remember, though, there are two major caveats: One, this was hillbilly testing. Second, there was no barrier testing. I'd have no issue using the Q load, especially for the money.

[SamAdams]

Thanks gruntjim for your first hand account. What you experienced fits with the information Ive found from others (which isn't much). This bonded bullet penetrates deeper than the HST, but expands less. - - I'll get a few boxes and see how it works as a woods round. Best regards -

I tested it a few years ago out of a G23, in clothed water jugs. The RA40B, the Q4369 and the 180 grain Gold Dot all expanded and penetrated into the third jug. The rounds all expanded to around .70 caliber. The outstanding performance was from the 180 grain HST, in that it expanded to almost .80 caliber. Remember, though, there are two major caveats: One, this was hillbilly testing. Second, there was no barrier testing. I'd have no issue using the Q load, especially for the money.

[Symmetry]

They could be useful for outdoor use up in the mountains where large predators roam (black bear & mountain lion).

Of all the .40 loads that I have tested against various dense materials, I have found the Speer 165gr GD at 1150fps to show the highest level of penetration AFTER fully expanding. One test I really like is to set up an expanding media, and then letting the mushroomed bullet tackle barriers. The FBI tests put the barriers first, which do not test the barrier penetration properties of the expanded bullet. You can either shoot through a 1gal jug of water before the barrier, a 4" block of gel, or a 3" block of ice. All three will cause full expansion and adequately slow the bullet down before barrier impact. In terms of penetrating dense material, the high velocity 165gr load is by far the best performing animal protection load I have found.

[JHC]

Of all the .40 loads that I have tested against various dense materials, I have found the Speer 165gr GD at 1150fps to show the highest level of penetration AFTER fully expanding. One test I really like is to set up an expanding media, and then letting the mushroomed bullet tackle barriers. The FBI tests put the barriers first, which do not test the barrier penetration properties of the expanded bullet. You can either shoot through a 1gal jug of water before the barrier, a 4" block of gel, or a 3" block of ice. All three will cause full expansion and adequately slow the bullet down before barrier impact. In terms of penetrating dense material, the high velocity 165gr load is by far the best performing animal protection load I have found.

That's cool. Ever test any .357 Sig loads?
That's an interesting data point.

[Symmetry]

That's cool. Ever test any .357 Sig loads?
That's an interesting data point.

I did the testing several years ago, and it was a comparison between the best of the 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp loads from 4.4" Sig barrels for duty use. We also shot up several vehicles with the loads. I have since moved to a different state within the agency and haven't gotten setup for additional testing yet. I used Winchester Ranger Bonded, Federal HST, and Speer Gold Dots for the testing. Of the 3 calibers, the .40S&W offered the best overall barrier penetration and terminal effects across the board in all three ammo brands.

[JHC]

I did the testing several years ago, and it was a comparison between the best of the 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp loads from 4.4" Sig barrels for duty use. We also shot up several vehicles with the loads. I have since moved to a different state within the agency and haven't gotten setup for additional testing yet. I used Winchester Ranger Bonded, Federal HST, and Speer Gold Dots for the testing. Of the 3 calibers, the .40S&W offered the best overall barrier penetration and terminal effects across the board in all three ammo brands.

Good times. Thanks!

[SamAdams]

@Symmetry - thank you for your reply and the information. It's appreciated.

I'll keep your results in mind.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Of all the .40 loads that I have tested against various dense materials, I have found the Speer 165gr GD at 1150fps to show the highest level of penetration AFTER fully expanding. One test I really like is to set up an expanding media, and then letting the mushroomed bullet tackle barriers. The FBI tests put the barriers first, which do not test the barrier penetration properties of the expanded bullet. You can either shoot through a 1gal jug of water before the barrier, a 4" block of gel, or a 3" block of ice. All three will cause full expansion and adequately slow the bullet down before barrier impact. In terms of penetrating dense material, the high velocity 165gr load is by far the best performing animal protection load I have found.

I'm curious what the point is, unless it is just informational. As I understand it, the general point to barrier penetration is to shoot some fleshy felon hiding behind stuff, not to shoot through barriers after penetrating said fleshy felon.

[Symmetry]

I'm curious what the point is, unless it is just informational. As I understand it, the general point to barrier penetration is to shoot some fleshy felon hiding behind stuff, not to shoot through barriers after penetrating said fleshy felon.

Well, some would consider the FBI protocols to be the only test that needs any attention. However, I believe that there is much more that can be considered given enough time shooting barrier materials. For instance, the .45acp does pretty well across the board in the FBI tests......but when you take it out and actually shoot up a car, it doesn't look so great. A car door is composed of MUCH more than two pieces of sheet steel, and after dumping a magazine of .45 230gr+P JHPs into a real car/truck door you realize that the FBI tests weren't too helpful.