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Thread: How to train shooting on the move?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 60167 View Post
    The more I contemplate this, the more I can think of scenarios that involve engaging a threat that pops up while I'm already moving.
    For someone in your line of work that rings especially true. If you are #2 through a door and have to engage a threat, freezing in the door to do so will cause a major traffic jam and leave #1 hanging in the wind. Drawing on a drawn gun is another thing to consider. Action is faster than reaction, and if someone already has the drop on you then moving out of the way is probably a pretty smart thing to do, but if you are close enough to them to where you can get shots off with 100% accountability, then why not shoot while you're at it?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    East Greenwich, RI
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Osborne View Post
    For someone in your line of work that rings especially true. If you are #2 through a door and have to engage a threat, freezing in the door to do so will cause a major traffic jam and leave #1 hanging in the wind.
    Absolutely this. Shooting on the move is a critical skill for SWAT personnel.

    It's also a tool in the tool box for a patrol officer or anyone who caries a gun. Like most things, the best course of action is situational. At arms distance, it doesn't take a GM level shooter to make hits, and untrained personnel accomplish this on a regular basis. The ability to get hits drops significantly for the untrained as distance increases. I'm a firm believer that at most law enforcement/CCW interactions, drawing, shooting and moving laterally at the same time is a great response for those close range encounters.

    At intermediate distances, hauling ass for cover might be the best response. Again, so much is situational and good force on force training is needed to refine square range practice.

  3. #13
    There's a time to move, a time to shoot, a time to haul ass and a time to shoot while moving.

    I know not everyone is kicking in doors and clearing structures in a team environment, but if you are, it is my opinion that you MUST be able to shoot while moving. I know there was a day in age where the shooting didn't start until you posted up, but if you are working in that environment and if that is only what your skills allow for, then you need more practice or you need to find a different assignment. If you are a competitor it seems to give an edge to those who do it well.
    Last edited by Surf; 09-03-2015 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #14
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gaming In The Streets
    I'm with the majority here that there are times to shoot then move, move then shoot, shoot standing still, and to shoot on the move. I think space, time, angles, barriers, the location of threats and the location of bystanders, plus shooter skill, will all play into the individual equation of which is best in a given circumstance.

    It seems to me that being able to start moving quickly and draw and make accurate hits (high thoracic cavity or head shots) makes for a very strong immediate action drill so to speak.

    No comment about shooting on the move as it relates to SWAT because that is not something I know about.

    I got really excited about shooting on the move a number of years ago, and spent probably a year or more practicing that to the exclusion of almost everything else. I'm pretty happy with what I can do with it now.

    Interestingly, I don't shoot on the move nearly as much in competition as I do in self-defense drills, because in USPSA, there are usually enough targets requiring enough shots in a small enough span of distance where the targets are available, that I just can't be moving at full speed or I will run out of space before I've done all the shooting that needs to be done.

    It may take some work to get there, but shooting at a high rate of movement can be done with good accuracy. No question it's easier to have certainty in shooting if you don't move. I've been pleased with the results of just about everyone I've tried to teach this to though.

    If you go to 1:45 of this next video, this is what shooting on the move usually looks like for me in USPSA, given how many targets there are to address.

    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court

  5. #15
    Member Luke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    ^^^ that is insane. Why are you not a professional shooter with big name sponsors?

  6. #16
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
    Wisconsin, USA
    Some people aren't in it for the sponsors

    Myself, I'm in it to be more competent and it feels good to destroy people in any leaderboard. Sponsors take a damn fine hobby and turn it into work, ruining it overnight
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  7. #17
    My questions are as follows:

    How much do you train shooting on the move? Is it a priority to you?
    Do you move then shoot, or move while shooting, or both?
    Do you have any suggestions for drills?
    Every chance I get.
    Depends on the situation.
    Drill I recommend doing:

    3 IPSC targets (or vtac skeletons, organs are good) about 5 yards away (for starters, this drill can be made more difficult).

    Make sure the distance between the starting point and ending point is no less than 10 yards.

    Time yourself sprinting from start to finish, without gun drawn or anything else, this at max sprinting speed.

    For the drill, you have to start at a standing and concealed position facing the targets. On command/buzzer/gunshot, you sprint, drawing and firing, at one of the three targets (your choice I normally consider the others no shoots), which you must put at least 4 A-Zone hits or vital organ hits into. The par time is your sprinting time without draw.

    If you run three consecutive drills meeting your sprint time then do it other-strong hand. If you meet the time still, move the targets back to 7 yards.

    My par time is right under 3.5x seconds for 7 yards, left or right handed (.1-.2 seconds difference).

    If your gun handling skills are not sufficient enough to do this safely then practice dry first a few times and then proceed forward with the drill un-timed.

    There are several evolution's to this drill, meaning more complex with tighter time requirements.

    Several ways to effectively do this drill, either focus on your front sight or use back plate shooting.

    Don't sell yourself short and game the sprinting. It should be the equivalent to the "off shit!" moment of speed movement.
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  8. #18
    I was hoping you'd post that video, Gabe. Best evidence that one can move "for real" and shoot well at the same time.

    I don't have an access to a range where I can move and shoot live. Ability to shoot and move, however constrained by a course of fire, was one of the reasons why I got into games. My preference for USPSA over IDPA is based on many things, but very artificial nature of shooting on the move in IDPA is one of them.

    I practice SOM in dry fire about once a week.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  9. #19
    I practice shooting on the move quite a bit, mostly get off the X type of short movement with a couple of shots taken from retention, the movement and gunfire to allow distance/time enough to get a shot package put together to place rounds with more accuracy, and also forward or arcing movement while shooting to the side to replicate suppressive fire while moving to cover or whatever/wherever.

    One thing that I have issue with is training myself to shoot and move backwards too much. While doing that under induced stress I've found that target fixation coupled with the adrenaline makes my movements tend to speed up and my peripheral awareness narrows. Backing up is a double shot of risk for a fall since: 1) Can't see where you're going 2) Are in a position of compromised balance with momentum working against you if you trip on something.

    How do the experienced guys here handle moving backwards?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Vienna, VA
    A few things I've found, about shooting on the move:
    - You'll never be able to shoot as fast or as accurately on the move, as you will posted up.
    - The vast majority of people who try to shoot on the move, be it in training, practice, or competition, move far too slowly to do any good.
    - You will almost always spend less time overall running to a single position and shooting your target array, versus covering the same distance while shooting the same targets on the move.

    There's an SOM drill that I shoot almost every time I get an outdoor range day. To set it up, you need two static steel plates, two shooting boxes of some kind, and three USPSA or IDPA targets. Set up the shooting boxes about 15' apart, call them Box A and B. Put a steel plate directly in front of each box, far enough away to make it a challenging shot (I use 8" round plates at 15 yards.) Those are S1 and S2. Set your cardboard targets between the boxes, 7 yards distant, and spread out however you like. Call them T1-T3.

    Starting in box A, on signal, fire one hit on S1, then engage T1-T3 with two rounds each while moving to box B. Once in box B, fire one hit on S2. Record your overall time and hits on paper. Shot accountability is really important for this drill, so I count it as a failure if I have more than one hit outside the A zone.

    The point of this drill is to give the shooter some significant incentive to move quickly between shooting positions, while still getting good hits on the move. I try to move just fast enough to get consistent A-zone hits while shooting, then take off like a bat outta hell once I break shot number six. If you find that you're getting all Alphas while moving flat-out, great! Either move the targets back, or cut down the scoring zones with hard cover/no-shoots. You can also change up the box and target positions to do lateral, oblique, or forward-backward movement.

    My blog: The Way of the Multigun

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