Lever Guns

[Lost River]

[QUOTE=Wheeler;1325937]

Is there a difference now between the two ammos? My understanding is they are the same in modern ammo? If I’m wrong in that I need to be set straight.

Yes there definitely is.

Outside of handloading you are extremely unlikely to find any Schofield ammo (aka .45 S&W) loaded beyond old black powder levels, even when using modern propellants. This has to do with the types of revolvers that chambered the cartridge, such as the old S&W Model 3, which was a top break revolver.

The .45 Colt, aka Long Colt however, is an entirely different animal.

Modern ammunition can be, and is loaded from very sedate, black powder era levels to levels that equal, and sometimes can exceed that of top end .44 Magnum type loads. Manufacturers such as Starline produce .45 Colt brass to handle similar pressures as .44 Magnum brass. Given that it is simply a matter of case volume (the .45 Colt case has more internal volume than the Schofield), you can put more powder in it, when using a projectile of equal weight.

Here is a pic of the Schofield case and .45 Colt case, side by side, both cases of the same manufacturer (Starline).

A simple way to compare the two, would be similar to a .38 Special case and a .357 Magnum, with the .45 Colt representing the .357 Magnum.



And a .45 Cowboy Special, .45 S&W Schofield, and .45 Colt/Long Colt.




Hope this helps some readers.

[entropy]

I’ve been dreaming of late of running thru the safe with a chainsaw, doing serious culling, and concentrating on more basic utilitarian directions. A nice 16” lever gun, a similar chambered SA, and a decent pump gun would check a whole lot of boxes at this point in my life.

[Shotgun]

A nice 16” lever gun, a similar chambered SA, and a decent pump gun would check a whole lot of boxes at this point in my life.

Don't the cowboy action shooters do that? I don't know if they use pumps or whether they stick to good ol' twice barrels.

[MandoWookie]

[QUOTE=Wheeler;1325937]

Is there a difference now between the two ammos? My understanding is they are the same in modern ammo? If I’m wrong in that I need to be set straight.

As Lost River said, there is a distinction still between the Schofield and Colt rounds, and it has widened. Doing some further reading, it appears that when the US went back to .45 for a while after dissatisfaction with its .38 revolvers, they went back to the original specs for .45 Colt, I guess by that point the Schofields were all out of service and the new Double Action Army revolvers they were purchasing had no issues with it.

Were the confusion probably arises is that modern repros of the Schofield are commonly chambered in standard .45 Colt nowadays.

[MDFA]

You Sir have a keeper of a wife

Her "Duke" Rig is complete.


And she sometimes sips Whiskey Neat.... She's a keeper... She's a Cops Wife, and that's not easy for anyone...

[entropy]

Anyone use a Williams Fire Sight with a Buckhorn rear? Currently running the original bead with a receiver sight. I’d like to try out something better for the old eyes, but quicker than the receiver rear and not as bulky.

[NuJudge]

My Dad hunted deer into his late 70s. One of his favorite rifles to carry was an early Marlin 1895 in .45-70, equipped with an aperture rear. Somehow, he never shot anything with it. He gave it to me and told me to shoot something with it. I shot a couple Upper Peninsula Whitetails with it using factory 300gr JHP Remington ammo. Those bullets did not expand at all, punching .457" holes, with very little bruising around the holes, even in the lungs. I'm going to switch to cast bullets with it. I have two .460" gas checked molds to try with its Microgroove rifling.

My father sent a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum to stay with me. He bought it to carry with him when periodically walking his fence line. He put an aperture rear on it also. He thought it was reasonably light and flat. I shoot a lot of .44 Magnum and Special through revolvers, all with big Kieth SWC bullets. Loaded in the .44 Magnum case with that big Keith nose sticking out, they won't feed out of the 94 tube magazine. It feeds short-nosed factory JSPs fine. I would not be surprised if Marlins had the same problem. I'm going to try a round nose with a flat point on it, and see if that will feed. I'm also going to try the Keith SWC bullets in .44 Special brass, and see if those will feed. I can shoot this rifle much more accurately than a pistol in the same caliber.

[Rick R]

Loaded in the .44 Magnum case with that big Keith nose sticking out, they won't feed out of the 94 tube magazine. It feeds short-nosed factory JSPs fine. I would not be surprised if Marlins had the same problem. I'm going to try a round nose with a flat point on it, and see if that will feed. I'm also going to try the Keith SWC bullets in .44 Special brass, and see if those will feed. I can shoot this rifle much more accurately than a pistol in the same caliber.

There was a gent in Texas who designed a line of cast bullets and sold the molds manufactured by Lee under the company name “Ranch Dog”. He has since closed up shop but his bullet designs are used by NOE in some of that company’s molds. The Ranch Dog bullets are designed to work in lever guns without issues. I have the NOE versions for a 360gr .45/70 and 265gr .44 bullets and both kill deer quite well.

[gato naranja]

My father sent a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum to stay with me. He bought it to carry with him when periodically walking his fence line. He put an aperture rear on it also. He thought it was reasonably light and flat. I shoot a lot of .44 Magnum and Special through revolvers, all with big Kieth SWC bullets. Loaded in the .44 Magnum case with that big Keith nose sticking out, they won't feed out of the 94 tube magazine. It feeds short-nosed factory JSPs fine. I would not be surprised if Marlins had the same problem.

I had a Winchester 94 Trapper in .44 Mag, and it was problematic with SWCs, but a lot of lever guns are.

After that 94 left the building, I concentrated on .357 Magnum leverguns... and they seem to be - if anything - worse than the .44 for being fussy feeders, but not in every instance. I had a very nice 16" Rossi 92 in .357 which ended up being the most trouble-free of the bunch, but it took a lot of time and twiddling to make it that way. My inability to use its sights led me to part with it, otherwise it would still be my "go to" carbine.

One of my numerous (JM) Marlin 1894C's would feed about anything including empty cases, but other than slightly breaking the sharp edge of the chamber where it invariably took a bite out of the bullet or case on its way in, I didn't do anything to it. Luck of the draw.

[CSW]

There was a gent in Texas who designed a line of cast bullets and sold the molds manufactured by Lee under the company name “Ranch Dog”. He has since closed up shop but his bullet designs are used by NOE in some of that company’s molds. The Ranch Dog bullets are designed to work in lever guns without issues. I have the NOE versions for a 360gr .45/70 and 265gr .44 bullets and both kill deer quite well.

I knew "Ranch Dog" from my days modding over at shooters forum during the late 90's and until about 2010.
His bullets were the shit!
There was another gent, Marshall Stanton in Idaho, who owned Beartooth Bullets. His Hardcast designs fed in levers as well, and were quite deadly to anything downrange. Sadly, Marshall has ceased production as well.