Off hand AR position question

[GJM]

This afternoon, I set up an eight inch steel at 100 yards, and did some off hand shooting with an AR as a trigger control exercise. The AR I was using, all I had out at our remote cabin, was a 6920 with a 7 inch-ish Daniel Defense tube, SSA trigger, Aimpoint PRO and a Magpul vertical fore grip.

I was consistently able to hit the eight inch steel by grabbing the 30 round GI magazine in my support hand, and tucking in with what I would call Olympic off hand. I experimented with the vertical grip, but had a significantly lower hit rate. Anything grabbing forward was out of the question as it was too hot.

As I finished, I looked at the steel and realized my hits were primarily clustered in the top portion of the steel. Head palm moment, since I am zeroed 50/220ish, my zero would be two inches high at 100 making my eight inch steel effectively smaller.

My question is what is best technique in terms of pure accuracy for off hand shooting with an AR configured as mine was? And, what would be the best equipment set up if your goal was to have a 100 percent, or very near that, hit rate at 100 yards on an eight inch steel?

[JSGlock34]

Were you using a sling at all? I didn't see one listed, but a sling can be of some use when shooting unsupported.

[joshs]

The standing position used in high power is probably the most stable standing position. As for improving your hit rate, using a more accurate barrel/ammo combo is an easy improvement.

[GJM]

Were you using a sling at all? I didn't see one listed, but a sling can be of some use when shooting unsupported.

I have a sling on most every rifle, and use three point shooting slings on my bolt guns. However, I ended up pilfering the QD swivel off this AR for my Benelli, and removing the VTAC sling, since we are 100 miles by air from town. Today, no sling. My experience is that a sling benefits mostly when you can support your elbow like in kneeling, sitting and prone. Do you think that something like the VTAC sling, which I think of mostly as a carry sling, helps offhand?

The standing position used in high power is probably the most stable standing position. As for improving your hit rate, using a more accurate barrel/ammo combo is an easy improvement.

Josh, I was more thinking in terms of the shooter part. Would you use the same shooting position, as I did grabbing the magazine, or another position for off hand?

[LOKNLOD]

If I just want to hold the rifle as steady as possible for accuracy on a stationary target, supporting the mag with the off hand and bracing the elbow off the torso is about as good as I can get. I'm picturing the standing position during the biathlon -- I'm picturing what you described in the OP being same/similar.

[BarryinIN]

Offhand was my favorite position in Highpower.

But as much as I liked it, I found it hard to coach because the position is so dependent on a shooters build. What works for this guy won't work for that guy. That's why you see so many variations of OH when you look down the firing line at a big Highpower match.

I found a little more stability by standing with my right foot a little further back/around than most. By that, I mean instead of the left foot at 12:00 and right foot at 6:00, I'd have my right foot at about 6:15. (RH shooter).
A doctor I asked thought it couldn't be the case, but I always thought this locked my vertebrae in place better. Maybe just that little bit of tension did it.

And of course try any way you can find to eliminate having to support the front of the rifle with muscle. The usual: Try to plant your elbow into your side, use a 20-rd mag as a palm rest, etc. Then again, this is one of those things that can vary with a person's build. Some long armed shooters can do better supporting it with their arm away from the body because planting the elbow into their side puts the rifle sitting on top of what amounts to a long pole, and they get too much lateral wobble.

When setting up the position, I'd work from back to front on the rifle. Put the buttplate into the shoulder in the same spot, have the strong hand on the grip in the exact same place with the same grip tension, put your support hand in the same place (I'd align a corner of the 20-rd magazine with a seam in my glove), etc.
Some people tried to keep this unchanged from shot to shot. I found I couldn't, so would get more consistency by starting over and rebuilding the position each shot. Again, what works for one may not work for another.

If you fine tune until you get everything right, when you fall into your natural point of aim, the rifle should even wobble more or less the same way each time. There was sometimes discussion (disagreement) about how to "approach" the bullseye with the front sight. Example- Some would claim their wobble was a figure eight and would try to have the front sight touch the bull on a certain point of the 8. I always had a more vertical wobble and eased up on the bull from the bottom. Whatever works, but find a way that you can do the same each time.

I'm down to fine details here, but I'm trying to reinforce what we already know: That consistency is everything. What makes up the best steps you take to get there you'll have to find.

And don't be afraid to take the rifle down without breaking the shot. If it isn't right, it won't get better until you start again.

I always practiced offhand more than anything, even though the score only made up 20% of the 50-shot National Match Course. Some say that if you can shoot offhand well, you can shoot the others well. I find that to be a "maybe", but sure never felt it hurt anything!

[TGS]

I have a sling on most every rifle, and use three point shooting slings on my bolt guns. However, I ended up pilfering the QD swivel off this AR for my Benelli, and removing the VTAC sling, since we are 100 miles by air from town. Today, no sling. My experience is that a sling benefits mostly when you can support your elbow like in kneeling, sitting and prone. Do you think that something like the VTAC sling, which I think of mostly as a carry sling, helps offhand?

I don't think the VTAC will be very helpful. I think a TAB sling might be a good purchase if you want something practical for your AR to use as a shooting sling.

Again, as you noted, most of its application will be in sitting, kneeling and prone.

Josh, I was more thinking in terms of the shooter part. Would you use the same shooting position, as I did grabbing the magazine, or another position for off hand?

I don't know anyone who used a magazine hold with 30 rounders. Almost all of us in the USMC and the NRA highpower club put our support hand on the slip ring or very close to it on the handguards. You could try using 20 round or 10 round mags to try a magazine hold as well and see if it's more comfy.

[JSGlock34]

I have a sling on most every rifle, and use three point shooting slings on my bolt guns. However, I ended up pilfering the QD swivel off this AR for my Benelli, and removing the VTAC sling, since we are 100 miles by air from town. Today, no sling. My experience is that a sling benefits mostly when you can support your elbow like in kneeling, sitting and prone. Do you think that something like the VTAC sling, which I think of mostly as a carry sling, helps offhand?

Eh - maybe. I don't think it would make a dramatic difference. Thinking about the few times I did this with a M16A2 and iron sights, I'd jam my support elbow into the magazine pouch on my ALICE belt, and wrap the carry strap/sling around my support forearm to add some tension. I recall this being a pretty steady setup, though looking back on it the sling tension could've been affecting the barrel.

[ranger]

There is an article in the December 2014 American Rifleman with Kyle Lamb "Shooting the General Purpose Rifle" that has some good discussion on modified shooting positions for sitting, knee up, and kneeling. I like his take on "knee-up" and "carbine on Knee". I saved the article.

[GJM]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. I will try to get back to the range later and work on this more.

I am 6-1, 168 pounds, and I believe a major opportunity is to work to steady my body position. I am going to try mid height hiking boots, as my ankles have always been flexible, and in my dry fire I feel that may help. Also plan to hold on the bottom 1/3 of the plate, to have more percentage of the eight inch steel available.

It was a big help to know there wasn't an easy trick I was missing, and to continue to refine what seemed to be working well, by way of stance, yesterday.