Interesting observations HK vs SIG: a Police Rangemaster's Perspective

[gtmtnbiker98]

Sidearm History:
From 1989 to 2004 my department issued the SIG P226 chambered in 9mm. In 2004 we transitioned to the SIG P229R chambered in .357 SIG. In 2007, our P229R's were converted to .40 S&W due to ammo costs. In 2013 our department adopted the HK P30 lite LEM chambered in 9mm. Our current issued duty load is Winchester Ranger T 124gr +P and our range ammunition is Winchester Ranger 124gr NATO.

Given our relative brief history with the HK P30, I have recently come to the following conclusion. When placed in an officers holster and exposed to the day-to-day elements associated with police work, the SIG Sauer pistol is a more reliable and forgiving platform when directly compared to our HK P30's. This is a departmental observation, not a blanket declaration. This is my opinion based on 19-years as a police officer and several thousand observed rounds down range.

I conduct quarterly training sessions and qualifications annually for my department and each officer fires between 250-300 rounds of 9mm and another 150 rounds of 5.56 per quarter. Given our area of the State, I would venture to say that we shoot more than any other department in SW Ohio. Since our adoption of the HK P30, I've witnessed a large increase in stoppages.

When conducting a post mortem of the stoppage, two things have been found with great regularity. The lack of lubrication and a poor grip. I never witnessed so many consistent stoppages with the SIG as we do with the HK P30. All of our HK pistols have an estimated 2,000 rounds of 124gr ammunition through them. The most commonly observed malfunction is a failure to extract.

Although the HK pistols function fine while dirty, they must be lubricated in order to function as designed (shocking I know). Back in 2013, I would have never believed that I'd be making this statement, but given a sample of 20 HK P30's and carried by both male and female officers from differing backgrounds over a period of two years, the P30 is not as forgiving as the SIG P226/P229 when a lack of maintenance and varied skill sets are at issue.

Now we are faced for the first time I might add with the requirement to routinely spot check every duty weapon to ensure proper lubrication and maintenance. Should we already be doing this? Yes. Have we had to in the past? No.

[GJM]

Wow, this is very surprising.

I wonder if this is mostly a function of weight, with lighter weight pistols being more sensitive to grip than heavier pistols?

[Dagga Boy]

Weirdly, that was the exact opposite of what my old place found. Granted it was P220 vs. USP, but similar.

I would highly suggest briefing reminders from range staff and briefing inspections if possible. May be a weather difference or something, be we found the SIGs really needed to be run wet.

[entropy]

Interesting.

Although not a range master, it's been my observation while attending quals that the USPc also suffers from this exact same issue. This has been over a period of about 12 years now. Invariably when one goes down at a qual, it appears to belong to a "non gun guy". In the beginning it meant a trip to the armorer. Now, the RO's have a can of CLP handy. I've noticed over the years that mine does require pretty routine field stripping and lubing.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Interesting.

Although not a range master, it's been my observation while attending quals that the USPc also suffers from this exact same issue. This has been over a period of about 12 years now. Invariably when one goes down at a qual, it appears to belong to a "non gun guy". In the beginning it meant a trip to the armorer. Now, the RO's have a can of CLP handy. I've noticed over the years that mine does require pretty routine field stripping and lubing.

Unfortunately, I'll be doing the same regarding the lube.

[YVK]

If the day is going slow, everyone is bored and there's not much fun, you can post this on the HKPRO and the fireworks will begin.

[JTQ]

I wonder if it is actually the same level of lube between the SIG and HK or if the folks get the "new poly gun" and think, "hey, I don't have to lube this as much/often as I had to do with the old SIG". SIG's always seem to have a reputation for needing lots of lube (I'm pretty sure every gun person, at least SIG person has seen this article... http://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-s...-pistol-rails/ ) and maybe the folks let their guard down concerning maintenance/lube with the new "super gun"?



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[CCT125US]

No better way to ask..... do you have a standard lube? I have been using Wilson Combat oil on my v1 since the beggining. It gets several drops every couple thousand rounds. Been doing that for 7K. I find it stays put and doesn't burn off.

I also think I heard some Teutonic gnomes faint.

[GJM]

This thread caused me to grab my bottle of Lucas ED oil, and go check my wife's carry guns -- the G27 and 29. Both needed some lube and the dust balls shooed away. I looked at my newish P2000 .40, and it was still well lubed, in the condition it came from the factory. Not sure how old the HK pistols in service are, but I wonder if they came lubed from the factory, and many were not lubed since? My #1 USP .45 came lubed, but after a few months of carry and shooting, it was pretty dry when I lubed it a few weeks back.

[Beat Trash]

If the day is going slow, everyone is bored and there's not much fun, you can post this on the HKPRO and the fireworks will begin.

That would be amusing to watch...

HKPRO, the only web site I have every been censored on. I made too many posts within my first few days there. (I had the flu and was stuck at home.) I told the moderator to remove me from their membership after his less than professional PM.