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Thread: Interesting observations HK vs SIG: a Police Rangemaster's Perspective

  1. #51
    Not sure if you tracked it, but were the stoppages typically shot one on the presentation or successive shots?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #52
    Successive.

  3. #53
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Which is what they factually did by moving it away from a general public accessible area. Which is not a big deal because the chance of an insightful discussion there isn't high when it comes to HK criticism.
    Wow. I see that now. At first, I thought you were making a hypothetical point, but...wow. Just wow.

  4. #54
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    Great thread.
    +1. I learn more from you guys shooting the breeze on these topics here, than five other gun forums combined.

  5. #55
    Site Supporter LtDave's Avatar
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    My former agency has issued USP .40 fullsize and Compacts since about '99. No issues with lube or malfunctions. The only broken one I know of was a broken trigger guard on the skull of a bank robbery suspect. We did have some issues with CCI Blazer low lead qualification ammo early on. For some reason, the case heads of the ammo were sticky and would not slide up the breech face of the HKs. Wiping off the caseheads with a rag was a low tech fix. The stuff was so sticky that you could lift a round out of the box by just pressing a finger on the round and pulling it out. Has the factory rep out, but I never got a final answer as to why.
    The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
    disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.

  6. #56
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    Just spitballing here, but if you're using WCC for training & duty fodder, isn't it possible that some lots of this stuff have out of spec / inconsistent cartridge rim thickness, giving the extractor insufficient purchase? Any possibility at all that this could be a causal factor in these malfunctions?

  7. #57
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Curious what the extractor tension is. On each of the six P30s or so passed through my hands, when cycled slowly they would hold a loaded 124gr Gold Dot firmly against the breach face until it hit the ejector. My beater with 80K through it still managed to do this before I dumped it. Was the spent case rim still under the extractor in your samples?
    Taking a break from social media.

  8. #58
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredM View Post
    Just spitballing here, but if you're using WCC for training & duty fodder, isn't it possible that some lots of this stuff have out of spec / inconsistent cartridge rim thickness, giving the extractor insufficient purchase? Any possibility at all that this could be a causal factor in these malfunctions?
    The only ammo my P30 ever choked (FTExtract) on was Winchester.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
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  9. #59
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    The only ammo my P30 ever choked (FTExtract) on was Winchester.
    Not a P30, but the only ammo my P2000 didn't like was the zinc coated steel case stuff. I didn't shoot any other steel cases. That stuff would swell in the chamber and I guess it doesn't work well with stepped chambers. The gun didn't have enough oomph to overcome such, and it would jam (actually using the word correctly here) about halfway through the extraction stroke. A strong power stroke would eject the round and all was fine....nothing I needed to use a tool or specially manipulate the weapon in any way.

    This happened 2 or 4 times in 1000 rounds with MFS zinc plated steel ammo.

    Gt,

    Any idea on MRBF per weapon? Is the MRBF so short that it's no bueno?
    Last edited by TGS; 08-16-2015 at 09:57 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #60
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Terminology gets sort of tricky on this, I'd imagine.

    If the extractor is on the case rim and is pulling it to the rear, but the slide runs out of oomph before the case hits the ejector or fails to hit it with the required force, that's not really a failure to extract in my mind. I can see how lubrication and grip would play into that scenario.

    If the slide was moving to the rear leaving the case in the chamber where another round could be slammed into the back of it, then as I see it there are a few possible causes:

    - Improper extractor tension
    - Broken extractor
    - Debris/crud buildup preventing the extractor from achieving proper purchase on the rim of the case
    - Debris or some defect in the chamber that's holding the brass enough that the extractor is pulling off of the rim as the slide moves back
    - Out of spec/defective ammunition

    Lubrication wouldn't really fix any of those.

    Because these machines are in human hands I think we're doomed to dealing with confounded variables, but this still doesn't seem normal. And given that we're talking about a relatively small number of guns/ammunition manufacturing defects with either the weapons or the ammo being used are strong possibilities.
    Relating to improper extractor tension....


    Not that it was something that needed to be done frequently, but a tuned in member on HKPRO used to offer extractor radiusing services if need be for USPs, and I imagine P-Series as well. If the extractor radius wasn't right, it would lead to improper tension....replacing the spring wouldn't do anything in this case, even though it was always the first, obvious suspect.
    Last edited by TGS; 08-16-2015 at 10:06 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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