Am I Shooting Enough?

[xmanhockey7]

A little background: I’m currently 23 years old and started really getting into guns when I turned 18. I got a Glock 22 and shot the snot out of it the summer before going to college. I was shooting about 2-4 days a week for the whole summer. Starting out I sucked, but got to the point I could put bullets where I wanted them. Shooting out to 25 wasn’t a huge deal for me. Between that time though I haven’t been shooting a whole lot. I had a couple years where I maybe went shooting once or twice in a year. Last summer I took a foundation handgun class and it made me realize how much I need to get back into shooting and work on my fundamentals. So I started shooting a lot again. Probably 200 rounds a week and my fundamentals got much better. Of course that only lasted so long and I got back into the groove of being lucky to shoot once a month.

I took a handgun class in May with Steve Fisher. Going into the class, I hadn’t shot my pistol in probably 2 or 3 months. I sucked. Flat out. I decided I needed to get on a shooting schedule that I could stick to. So I go shooting every other week and typically fire 75-200 rounds per session. While this is schedule is better, I’m not sure if I’m really shooting enough to see solid improvement. I do some dry fire practice, but I know not as much as I should.

My real question is, am I shooting enough to see meaningful improvement in my shooting? I suck at 25 yards and I don’t appear to be getting any better. I have seen some improvements like in shooting the FAST test. I used to always miss one or two shots running that test. Now I typically run it clean and a little faster than before. Any feedback is appreciated.

[warpedcamshaft]

Do you dryfire?

[xmanhockey7]

Do you dryfire?

Yes, not as much as I should though. I don't really have issues with the front sight moving though. It's easy to pull the trigger on a gun you know isn't loaded.

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes, not as much as I should though. I don't really have issues with the front sight moving though. It's easy to pull the trigger on a gun you know isn't loaded.

It might be easy, but it's important. There's a lot more to dry fire than just repeatedly pulling the trigger. Working on your draw to get a consistent index out of the holster, concentrating on getting your grip and doing so consistently, etc. I'm using dry fire right now to work on getting my elbows right. Once you learn to troubleshoot yourself during dry fire, you'll see a big improvement in live fire from doing so. Once you start getting into the tiny details of a clean presentation, consistent grip, etc, dry fire might not be as easy as you think.

[TGS]

75-200 rounds every other week or two is definitely enough to improve given your current skill.

Define a clear, actionable goal with a solid way to measure it. Given you currently "suck at 25," I would say that you still don't have a solid grasp on the fundamentals (front sight focus, trigger press). Thus, I would focus your training around getting a good grasp on the fundamentals. Take a look at the 200 drill. I would say it's a good benchmark to work for. Unless you're shooting over 100, preferably in the 130s, I really don't see a reason to work on sexier pistol skills.

Now, what are you actually doing for those 75-200 rounds? Check out the drills section on pistol-training.com and pick some that you think would not only be productive, but fun. Vary the distance and targets you shoot at. I think you should work a lot of shooting low-probability targets at your own pace. 2" dots or 3x5" index cards at 3-7 yards, and shooting B8 targets at 10-25 yards.

[xmanhockey7]

75-200 rounds every other week or two is definitely enough to improve given your current skill.

Define a clear, actionable goal with a solid way to measure it. Given you currently "suck at 25," I would say that you still don't have a solid grasp on the fundamentals (front sight focus, trigger press). Thus, I would focus your training around getting a good grasp on the fundamentals. Take a look at the 200 drill. I would say it's a good benchmark to work for. Unless you're shooting over 100, preferably in the 130s, I really don't see a reason to work on sexier pistol skills.

I absolutely need to improve fundamentals. Could you provide a link or explain the 200 drill? I'm not familiar with it and I tried to find it in the "drills" section of the forum.

Now, what are you actually doing for those 75-200 rounds? Check out the drills section on pistol-training.com and pick some that you think would not only be productive, but fun. Vary the distance and targets you shoot at. I think you should work a lot of shooting low-probability targets at your own pace. 2" dots or 3x5" index cards at 3-7 yards, and shooting B8 targets at 10-25 yards.

I start out with my "qualifier". 10 shots at 25, 10 shots at 15, 7 shots at 10 yards, 7 shots at 5 yards, and 3 shots at 3 yards. Each has a time limit. The 25 yard shot is 30 seconds and the 3 yard shot is 3 seconds. I spend a decent amount of time at the 7-10 yard line working on improving my groups by shooting at 6 or 8" circles. My goal is to get as small a group as possible. I also will do stuff with index cards. Sometimes I'll do a walk back drill shooting at an index card. Was able to get hits back to 18 yards with my Shield. I will print out the 2" dot target and work on getting shots in them from 3-7 yards next time I shoot.

[nwhpfan]

From September to about November I live fire very little. From November to February; If the weather is decent I might shoot a match... I still don't live much at all.

But I dry fire 3-5 times a week.

I don't lose anything.

[gringop]

What the heck, I'll fire up my old Lanny Bassham sermon for you.

1: What are your goals? Sub 5 second FAST? Clean all the Defore Drills? Make Expert in IDPA?
Until you know what your goals are and can communicate them to us, it's hard to say "yes, you need to shoot more" or "no, you can make good improvement with your current shooting volume."

2: What are you doing when you practice?
If you are shooting the FAST it sounds like you have a place that you can work from the holster. If your goals are competition or high level tactical shooting can you incorporate movement, multiple targets, etc into your practice? How are you tracking your shooting, are you keeping a notebook? Do you practice the things that you are not good at instead of the things that are easy for you?

3: How much time and money are you able to spend to reach your goals?
Can you dedicate a solid 30 minutes to dry fire each day in addition to your range trips? Is 200 rounds every two weeks straining your ammo budget? These factors will affect your goals, you need to keep them realistic.

4: Finally, equipment.
Are you running stock Glock sights on the G22? The factory disconnector? Would $100 get you some sights that work much better at 25 yards and a trigger that is a little less of a staplegun? Buying fancy parts won't automatically buy you skill but suffering with substandard parts will hold you back.

So, I gave you a bunch of questions and not many answers. So here is my SWAG based on MY experience. 200 rounds every 2 weeks doing the correct drills would allow a shooter to MAINTAIN skills at a IDPA low Expert level and a 6-7 sec FAST. Add in dedicated dry fire every other day and I would say that a somewhat experienced shooter could improve to that level and beyond. This is just a rough estimate, YMMV.

Gringop

[xmanhockey7]

What the heck, I'll fire up my old Lanny Bassham sermon for you.

Fair enough.

1: What are your goals?

Right now I need to improve my fundamentals. I want to get to the point where shooting at 25 yards I can hit an 8" circle 75% of the time. I don't do any competitions and my focus is on being a better armed citizen.

2: What are you doing when you practice?

I have a qualifier that I run cold and recently started keeping a journal on here. I didn't really start it until recently though.

3: How much time and money are you able to spend to reach your goals?

Now that the days are getting shorter, I am able to get done with work earlier (work from sun up to sun down) I can start dedicated 20-30 minutes to dry practice 5 days a week. 200 rounds every other week is not really straining my ammo budget, but I also wouldn't want to make sure I can still afford classes and ammo for those classes.

4: Finally, equipment.

I currently run a Glock 19 with Trijicon HD sights and a NY1 spring with "-" connector. Just started using it though. Before this week it was a fully stock G19 other than a smooth face G17 trigger.

[TGS]

I absolutely need to improve fundamentals. Could you provide a link or explain the 200 drill? I'm not familiar with it and I tried to find it in the "drills" section of the forum.



I start out with my "qualifier". 10 shots at 25, 10 shots at 15, 7 shots at 10 yards, 7 shots at 5 yards, and 3 shots at 3 yards. Each has a time limit. The 25 yard shot is 30 seconds and the 3 yard shot is 3 seconds. I spend a decent amount of time at the 7-10 yard line working on improving my groups by shooting at 6 or 8" circles. My goal is to get as small a group as possible. I also will do stuff with index cards. Sometimes I'll do a walk back drill shooting at an index card. Was able to get hits back to 18 yards with my Shield. I will print out the 2" dot target and work on getting shots in them from 3-7 yards next time I shoot.

Cool.

I would forget about pushing time for right now. If you want to work in timed drills just to maintain your skillsets, okay, but it shouldn't be the focus of your sessions right now and if it's interfering with you practicing the fundamentals then I'd lay off as well. I'm a big fan of building block approaches to basic marksmanship, so I would focus solely on your goal (75% in a B8 at 25 yards) until wanting to push yourself with speed. I wouldn't start pushing speed until you can place accurate shots at your own pace. You can start going after other goals involving speed when you meet your stated goal.

The 200 drill is simple. 20 rounds at 25 yards on a B8. 10 rounds two-handed, 5 rounds right hand only, 5 rounds left hand only. Score it. I would aim for at least 100, preferably 130 in order to consider you having the fundamentals understood, but not perfected (IMO, make this your next milestone/goal). Rock solid fundamentals along with a keen awareness of your gun/ammo POI will result in a 170+ score.

There's no sexy drill that will get you shooting this. It's just a matter of practicing front sight focus and a clean trigger press on small targets, over and over, until your brain "gets it."