686 Plus PRO (problem child)

[HCM]

So I recently traded into a 5 inch Smith & Wesson 686+ PRO (7 shot). In fairness the prior owner did mention it was "particular quote about ammo.

I took it out to the range and shot a variety of ammo including Remington 125 grain jacketed hollow .357, Federal 158 grain lead semi wadcutter 357, Armcor plated 158 grain 357 Solids, Federal 147 grain hydra shock plus P +38, and American Eagle 158 grain lead roundhouse 38.

Long story short the gunshot OK, 3 to 4 inch groups at 25 yards with jacketed ammunition. With plated and lead ammunition the groups opened up to 8 to 10 inches. The gun also exhibited a pattern of grouping five rounds in one place with two rounds in a different location.

I took the gun to a very experienced local gunsmith whom I've used before. He confirmed my observation about the crown of the barrel being poorly finished. He also gauged the chamber throats and found five of them measured .356 and the other two measured . 357. He mentioned he has seen several Smith & Wesson ProSeries and custom shop guns with issues recently.

I left the gun with him for a re-crown and to have the chamber throats opened up so they would all be the same size. He also get a light polish on the action parts. He did not cut or alter the springs in anyway. When I went to pick the gun up I tried the action and noticed that the trigger was not always fully resetting. Sometimes I would let the trigger all the way out and when I pull the trigger the cylinder would rotate but the hammer would not self cock and fire.

I brought it back and he attempted to correct it but they can still occasionally fails to reset. To make things more interesting, when I went to the range to shoot it I got multiple light strikes. I was able to self diagnose this as the strain screw haven't been backed out too far. I corrected the strain screw but the gun still has trigger reset issues.

I went back to the gun store where I obtained the revolver. The owner was very cooperative and offered to trade the gun straight across for another identical revolver which was new in the case. While discussing the issue with the owner and his gun Smith, we noticed a similar trigger reset issue with the new 686+ pro he had in the case as well. Both myself and his gunsmith had the new gun failed to reset the trigger when it was worked quickly.

I have considerable experience shooting double action triggers, including revolvers, and having carried Beretta DAO and SIG DAK autos as duty guns so I don't think I am short stroking the trigger.

Since it's a used gun Smith and Wesson states it is not covered under warranty so I will have to pay for repairs and shipping and my last two experiences with sending guns into Smith and Wesson have not been positive.


Is this a known issue? I thought maybe I just got a "Monday gun " but seeing a second new gun do the same thing made me doubt that theory. Any thoughts or advice?

[jh9]

Several of the PC 5" 627s shipped out a year or two ago with canted barrels.

Watch the hammer carefully. If you're FULLY resetting the trigger and the hammer doesn't move AND it's all the way down then it's possible it's the DA sear getting stuck inside the hammer. Especially if it works in slow fire. Youtube how to remove a S&W revolver sideplate. (If it doesn't say to use proper bits and not pry on the sideplate find another video.) Do that. Push the flippy bit on the hammer assembly (DA sear). This is probably getting stuck. You can probably push it then watch it stick sometimes.

Backing the strain screw out without drilling for a set screw or at least threadlocker would make me question the gunsmith... What *exactly* all did he do?

I would make sure the DA sear spring is installed correctly and possibly polish the hole in the DA sear it sits in. If that doesn't do it one or more of the external sear dimensions are off and you need someone who KNOWS S&W revolvers to fix that.

My first thought was the rebound but if the trigger is resetting that's not your problem.

[LSP972]

Actually, a too-light rebound spring, or a dragging/sticky rebound slide, can indeed cause a mushy/hesitant/no trigger reset. The OP stated that the trigger was not fully resetting on occasion. But the sear sticking, as you described, is a very distinct possibility.

Indeed, if this "gunsmith" backed out the strain screw, he's no knowledgeable S&W mechanic.

As for the lack of accuracy with lead bullets; if you have the ability, slug the barrel. Basically, you drive a soft lead slug down the length of the bore, then measure the groove impressions at their widest point. This will tell you the bore's mean diameter. While a sloppy crown is bad, if the bore is under-sized it can "squeeze" lead bullets and ruin their accuracy potential.

Not a diagnosis, you understand… just airing some possibilities.

.

[HCM]

I had a chance to make a very brief range visit today.

Now that the strain screw is back in all the way and the gun will fire reliably, I was able to get 2 1/2 inch groups with 125 grain and 158 grain JHPs and a little under 4 inches with American Eagle 158 grain lead round nose at 25 yards off a rest, double action.

This is a big improvement over the prior 8 to 10 inch groups with the American Eagle lead round nose. So his accuracy modifications, the crown force in town and making the chamber throat uniform seems to have worked well. As for the issue with the strain screw, he is an older gentleman and I think he gets a little forgetful.

[HCM]

He was supposed to do a light/carry action job. Basically polish internals as appropriate leave all the springs as-is /full power.

When I brought the failure to reset to his attention the first thing he suggested was the DA sear in the hammer getting caught and not dropping/ binding as you described. Apparently the new style sear fits in and is retained by a cut in the hammer as you described. It is no longer retained by a pin and now uses a smaller spring. He wanted me to shoot the gun and said if the accuracy was improved he suggested possibly fitting a forged hammer and sear as it would allow use of a stronger spring.

[Malamute]

Is it possible someone in the past put a lighter DA rebound spring in it?

[jh9]

He was supposed to do a light/carry action job. Basically polish internals as appropriate leave all the springs as-is /full power.

When I brought the failure to reset to his attention the first thing he suggested was the DA sear in the hammer getting caught and not dropping/ binding as you described. Apparently the new style sear fits in and is retained by a cut in the hammer as you described. It is no longer retained by a pin and now uses a smaller spring. He wanted me to shoot the gun and said if the accuracy was improved he suggested possibly fitting a forged hammer and sear as it would allow use of a stronger spring.

The old sear uses the same spring as the bolt. These are a bitch to find. I gave my last one away and Midway has been out of stock or temporarily unavailable for about a year now. The new sear spring is much smaller, yes, and much more available. (Well, usually. Brownells is out of both right now.)

Apex makes a forged hammer that uses the newer frame mounted FP. That's a couple hundred dollar solution (assuming, like lsp972 said, the rebound isn't the actual culprit) to a much cheaper problem.

There's nothing wrong with the MIM hammer and new sear setup. If there was everybody in the USPSA revolver game would be using Apex hammers instead of mostly cut down (or completely stock) MIM hammers. DA sear or rebound, I'd lay money on it just being a fit / tolerance stack issue. One part or another left the factory on the wrong side of good. That you could reproduce the problem in a brand new gun at the gunshop where you got this one is another sign. Likely a batch of fat sears or rebounds.

If it's the sear then just finding where it's rubbing on the hammer or where the spring is binding in the sear body should be enough. Adding more spring tension would be a band-aid on the fit issue. (Which would also be solved by the $150 hammer + labor...but also an unnecessary expense.)

[Robinson]

I owned one of those for a while and it was one of the best shooting revolvers I've owned, which by itself doesn't mean much other than to say it's probably not a problem with that model in general.