Carry gun, competition gun -- same or different

[LittleLebowski]

I've gone both ways on this, and have wound up somewhere in the middle.

Early on, when I was drinking all the training/defense/SHTFantasy/ccw koolaid I firmly believed that one should be competing with their exact carry gun, in their exact carry holster, with their exact carry clothes, every single time. I also thought I should creep around stages like a ninja, never take a walkthrough, cry about the gamers winning, claim because:tactical when I lost, etc.

I slowly moved on to drop all the tactical ninja sneaking around and tried to game the stages with my carry gear. Match placements increased dramatically.

Then I moved on further and bought a dedicated gamer gun in the form of a CZ. I bought dedicated gamer support gear, holsters, etc. there is no doubt whatsoever that y performance at matches improved. A lot. I think this is the A-answer for someone that shoots a lot. The CZ, for me, is a no good for carry so my Glocks remain my carry guns in the form of a 19 and a 26 (and soon to add a 42 and 43). When shooting a lot, I saw no problem going back and forth, and just u derstood that I shoot the Glocks a little slower and a little less accurately.

Then I stopped shooting as much.

So now I'm on to a Glock 34 instead of the CZ for no other reason than cost and having money tied up. I can use one mag ouch type, one bunch of spare mags, the carry guns will fit in the gamer holster if I want it to, the gamer gun will fit in the carry holsters if I buy them with open bottoms, etc. saves me having an extra $2k tied up in sole-use gamer gear when I only shoot a couple of matches a year. Gamer gear is also multi-purpose for IDPA, UPSPSA, or 2/3-gun (if I ever get into it again).

For the guy just starting out, my suggestion is to use carry gun/gear/concealment (on,y use concealment in IDPA where required) and not to ninja-around but to go out and try like hell to win. I don't really believe in competition-generated "training scars" or "competition will get you killed on the street" anymore since (a) you're not very likely to ever use your gun on the street and (b) I've never been able to find any documented examples of a competition shooter getting killed on the street solely because of competition "training scars".

Solid, solid post.

For me, "cost" is probably the most important bit on changing guns for competition and carry. Mags, mag pouches, sights, etc. Fortunately, I don't ever intend to win a match so I've got that going for me

[Gadfly]

I was issued DAO pistols for over a decade (96D, 229DAK, USPc LEM)... I tried to compete in IDPA with them. I could easily shoot a match with the DAO gear, but man follow up shots were slow. I could do OK, but not great. I eventually bought a Glock 22, and started to compete with that. When our office authorized personal purchase Glock 17 a couple years back, I jumped at it.

Now I carry a stock 17 or 26 on duty, and I compete IDPA or NRA TPC with the stock 17. I am liking it.

I could get a 34 and trick it out, but I am happy running the same stock set up I will be called upon to use if I ever have a real fight.

[ST911]

I could get a 34 and trick it out, but I am happy running the same stock set up I will be called upon to use if I ever have a real fight.

I am swapping out a G17 for a gen4 G34 (LE) I just picked up. Across the board switch for CCW, IDPA/USPSA, and duty carry. Just waiting on some holsters. This G34 has very nice trigger for a Glock. It came with a (.) connector, extended slide stop. I added some i-dot pros. This is as close to a race gun as I'm likely to go.

[Mr_White]

This G34 has very nice trigger for a Glock. It came with a (.) connector, extended slide stop. I added some i-dot pros. This is as close to a race gun as I'm likely to go.

That gun is going to race just great.

[Lost River]

For years because it was all I could afford, my duty guns were my USPSA guns.

Now, I have an issued gun that is not really suitable for competition (M&P .40 Compact).

With that in mind, off duty I carry a Glock 19, and compete with a G34 and G35, with an occasional match shot with a G19 or G17.

Given the option I would use Glocks for work,play and competition, but that is not the case.

[1911Nut]

I'm all over the place.

I compete in IDPA with a Wilson Combat 1911 in 9mm and a Glock G34 for ESP division.
I use an Ed Brown 1911 in .45 ACP for CDP division.
Also use a Glock G17 and the aforementioned Glock G34 for SSP division.
Just for more variety, I occasionally shoot a Glock G19 in both CCP and SSP divisions.

I also shoot steel matches, and shoot an STI 2011 in 9mm in Limited division.
I use the same Glock G34 as used in IDPA in Limited division.
Also use a different Glock G34 with an RMR RDS in Open division.
Finally, I use a Glock G17 in Production division.

For EDC, I use:
A Glock G19
A Glock G26
A Springfield EMP in 9mm
A Dan Wesson Guardian in .45 ACP
A Glock G36

For personal carry when in the woods or desert:
A Glock G20SF
The Ed Brown 1911 in .45 ACP
A S&W Mountain Revolver in .44 Magnum

Oh, almost forgot . . . . . A Ruger LCR in .38 Special for BUG

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've decided to shoot my Smith & Wesson Model 632 Carry Comp Pro .327 Federal Magnum Revolver in the next local IPDA match - http://www.gunblast.com/SW-632CCP.htm, except mine is SS white, not black. I also put on a fiber optic front and U rear sights. I will load it with various 32 rounds ranging from Fiocchi 32 Long FMJ to various 32 HR mag and 327s (if there is steel for the latter in a stage).

Why - I hardly ever carry it (I do pocket a 423 at times) - but because I can. The classification will be 'outlaw' or just a fun gun. BTW, I shoot steel with a Browning Buckmark with a fiber optic just for grins. Bink, Bink, Bink!

[AJZ]

I'm not going to name names, since some of these people are friends and I have not asked if they want any of this out there. Look at the guys who have been winning for years, not the GM who comes close, or wins once. The vast majority have learned to shoot and win with production type guns. They then transitioned to open type guns and continued to win. Many have gone back to production without any issues, or continue to jump back and forth. The key is that they learned to shoot a real gun first. The vast majority of GM's that I know who "started" in open, and continue in open, haven't done really well when attempting to switch to production type stuff.
Having done a fair bit of high speed (literally) driving, I get the analogy, but it doesn't carry over very well to pistols.

Visual speed is great, but it is visual patience, combined with good trigger control, that allows hits. Most open shooters (certainly not all) cannot seem to do that well when going to real sights and harder triggers.

There is a lot of merit here. It can be very easy for an avid competitor to get spoiled by a true "race" gun. In the industry today, many people are carrying guns that would have been called race guns 10 years ago. The biggest obstacle is the weight of the trigger pull. Many competitors set their triggers far lighter than what most would consider acceptable in a carry gun (2lbs or lighter in some cases). The lack of needing to apply significant pressure to the trigger in guns set up like this is often what I have seen as the root issue for "race gun" shooters when trying to transition to a production style gun. Another issue as I have seen it, if you are really "racing" these guns, is going to be the timing of recoil moving from gun to gun. Jumping from a .40 S&W Limited style gun to a G19 size 9mm is a big jump. It can most certainly be overcome with dedicated practice, but it is time consuming for anyone. All that being said, I compete with and carry the same gun, a Miller Custom 1911 in .45 ACP in Single Stack and CDP. The gun was built from the ground up as a carry gun for me, but it also serves my purposes as a competition gun. I absolutely prefer to carry a 9mm, but due to time, using a gun that CAN fill two roles is acceptable to me. Outside of Open division (for now), almost every division can accommodate a "carry" gun and they will be very competitive in those divisions. When all is said and done, it's going to be the shooter that makes it happen, not the gun. Ex: Robert Vogel shot a clone of his duty gun (G35) and won A LOT with it (even in Open division). That was the whole point of these gun games in the beginning anyways.

[taadski]

Any shooting is good shooting, and there are lots of ways to train. I'm certainly not an expert on how to train to win USPSA, or any other sport. I'm just pointing out that a moderately detailed study of the actual USPSA winners will show that starting with a race gun has not produced the long term results that have been mentioned here. There is an exception or two, but they prove the rule.

I think Avery's point is that at some stage along the learning curve to becoming world class in the pistol shooting world, one is going to need to 'see faster' than your average joe has learned to. He believes that the process of getting there is more easily achieved with using modern accoutrements first (lighter weight, shorter throw triggers, optics, lasers, compensators) and then bringing irons, heavier stock triggers, etc… back into the fold later. Easy first, then progressively harder/more difficult, just like the rest of the learning/education world.

I personally learned trigger control on revolvers, but given Ron's experience and success coaching shooters at that level (not to mention those accomplishments of his own) I can't discount his perspective.


While I realize, he is no average joe, even on the elite world stage, Max seems to be having success making his first formal foray into Production division. It was a treat getting to watch he and Ben go back and forth duking it out on Friday.


t

[Dr. No]

I have tried to mirror that as much as I could.

When I got my badge: Carried HK USP 45 and competed with the same in IDPA / USPSA L10
Got more serious about USPSA and wanted to lighten my load - Carried HK USP 40 and competed with the same in USPSA Limited.
P30L series came out, got into shooting production. Carried P30L LEM in 40 and competed with P30L DA/SA in 9mm. Went to SWAT during this time and have to carry a G22 when we do green stuff. Struggled a little bit with the transition between LEM and striker - usually on the first shot.
VP9 came out - switched to that for production. Shortly after the HK team dissolved and I was a free agent. I won a STI frame/slide at a match and decided to build it into a full on race gun in 9mm.
Made GM with the VP9, but couldn't carry it at work because there were no duty holsters for it. At this point I'm shooting 3 different guns with 3 different triggers. Really the only trouble I ran into was the first trigger pull.

Finally got a Safariland ALS in my hands and qualified with the VP9 at work. Now I'm carrying the VP9 as my primary, Glock 22 on green stuff, and the STI 9mm at matches. The striker guns are so similar in feel it's much easier to go back and forth and I don't feel like it's as much of a learning curve.

This seems like a lot, but it's been since 2006.


Honestly, at some point in your shooting career ..... you can pick up anything and shoot it well. I have pretty much the same sights on everything (Dawsons) so my sight pictures all look the same. I think for a newer shooter who doesn't have a lot of experience shooting under stress, it's a good idea to go with the same gun as it maximizes your training time. I see guys bring a new gun to the range every week and they suck with all of them. Get REALLY good with one, dedicate a year (I usually pick a competition season), and ring it out with a few thousand rounds. It will benefit you a lot more than that $300 trigger job.