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Thread: Feel good or actually good?

  1. #1

    Feel good or actually good?

    http://soldiersystems.net/2015/07/26...owth/#comments

    Most of us have been guilty of this at one point or another. My first tour in Afghanistan, I was sure I knew better than the guys who had been sneaking around Laos. As Pat likes to say, learning occurred.

    I relate the above post to some of the new techniques I see. Tried and true usually wins the day. This seems especially true when I shoot with people who talk a good game and then can't deliver in real life. They just haven't done the work, regardless of how many schools they've been to.

  2. #2
    Good read. I thought I was pretty high speed on my first deployment and looking back I realize how stupid I was. I recently just started selling all of my "cool" gear that was just sitting around or that I was "trying out". I took all of the money I made from that and invested it in ammo and more targets/target stands. I know the gear I have works and now I just need to focus on training.

  3. #3
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    What's wrong with "Carl" wearing armor when he isn't mandated to? I guess I was Carl when I worked part time for an armored car company. Hell, if that's all it takes I'm Carl now and will continue to be Carl.

    There's a fine line. Carrying everything and the kitchen sink at the cost of mobility and endurance, sure. Being the beta tester for every new piece of gear out there? I'm glad someone is...and glad that someone isn't me. Sometimes issued gear just sucks, though. The GI sling sucks for what we want to do, so I replaced it. Our soft vests don't stop rifle rounds, so I bought a plate carrier and throw it on when I do a warrant or roll up on a hot scene. Last night we had several people shot at a party, then the police got shot at when they showed up and shot some people right back. I was first detective onscene and it was still an active scene several floors up. I ditched my jacket and put on my plate carrier. Other detectives arrived and strolled around two floors under a search for a gunman like it was coffee time at the office. When shit goes sideways, I'd rather be ready than live up to social expectations.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    What's wrong with "Carl" wearing armor when he isn't mandated to? I guess I was Carl when I worked part time for an armored car company. Hell, if that's all it takes I'm Carl now and will continue to be Carl.

    There's a fine line. Carrying everything and the kitchen sink at the cost of mobility and endurance, sure. Being the beta tester for every new piece of gear out there? I'm glad someone is...and glad that someone isn't me. Sometimes issued gear just sucks, though. The GI sling sucks for what we want to do, so I replaced it. Our soft vests don't stop rifle rounds, so I bought a plate carrier and throw it on when I do a warrant or roll up on a hot scene. Last night we had several people shot at a party, then the police got shot at when they showed up and shot some people right back. I was first detective onscene and it was still an active scene several floors up. I ditched my jacket and put on my plate carrier. Other detectives arrived and strolled around two floors under a search for a gunman like it was coffee time at the office. When shit goes sideways, I'd rather be ready than live up to social expectations.
    In '82 (Army) I bought a Level III Second Chance for my A bag cause there was nothing. Made the mistake of telling some buddies who gave me no end of shit. To this day! Albeit now they acknowledge I was ahead of the curve.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #5
    Interesting points, but the comparison to us non-MIL people who do dangerous work does not quite make the transition.

    I was told really early on in my career that "you have to fight with what you got, if you don't got it you can't use it." That is absolutely true and I have learned this over and over, bailout of a vehicle, a hot pursuit or an active shooter call, if you don't have it when the fan turns slushy, you are in for a rude awakening. Obviously that is not the same expectation as someone in the MIL would have. I would also say that there is an even bigger divide between the concept portrayed in the article and the average CCW guy, who is carrying a pistol which may or may not be enough for whatever situation they find themselves in.

    I always bring up the extra magazine argument in terms of equipment requirements - you only don't need to run out of ammo to find out what happens...
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  6. #6
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    Good article.

  7. #7
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Interesting points, but the comparison to us non-MIL people who do dangerous work does not quite make the transition.

    I was told really early on in my career that "you have to fight with what you got, if you don't got it you can't use it." That is absolutely true and I have learned this over and over, bailout of a vehicle, a hot pursuit or an active shooter call, if you don't have it when the fan turns slushy, you are in for a rude awakening. Obviously that is not the same expectation as someone in the MIL would have. I would also say that there is an even bigger divide between the concept portrayed in the article and the average CCW guy, who is carrying a pistol which may or may not be enough for whatever situation they find themselves in.

    I always bring up the extra magazine argument in terms of equipment requirements - you only don't need to run out of ammo to find out what happens...
    Sure, and that's part of my issue with picking at Carl. A mortar attack might make him look well ahead of the curve.

    A few compounds from my team house lived a contractor named “Carl” (real name redacted) that would perform logistical tasks for my team. Despite force protection protocol only requiring a pistol for personal safety, Carl wore body armor at all times.

    Driving on the camp, body armor. Liaising with other units, body armor. Eating in the chow hall, body armor.

    This individual was so enchanted with the idea of combat (something he would not participate in) that he didn’t realize he was portraying himself as a liability. Because he behaved outside of the social norms of our FOB, and lacked professional credibility (in regards to realistic combat expectations), individuals that understood his situation did not take him seriously.
    Social norms of our FOB? Really? That's a reason to not wear armor? Since they carried pistols, I'm going to assume the chances of being attacked in some fashion were > 0. If things went sideways, he's got armor. If things don't...so what? A "social norm" violation makes him a liability? He's walking around on a FOB, his gear isn't hampering his ability to perform his job, leave him be. I was never high speed as a soldier or contractor, I was low speed tassel of the spear kind of regular guy, but this strikes me as more elitism than a real criticism of "gear slutting."

    It does happen stateside LE, too. We get issued a kevlar helmet. I've had a sergeant tell me to take it off while standing on a perimeter of an armed suspect in a grocery store because I was scaring people. Not the rifle in my hand, mind you, the helmet. I respectfully declined. I'll take the suspension if you want to push it that far, I'm not catching a bullet I don't have to. I was violating his social norm. Since just a few years prior we had a young officer who's career was ended and quality of life severely reduced thanks to a bullet creasing his skull, I'll go ahead and wear my helmet when I think its appropriate and screw your social norms.

    I can say I've never been much of a gear slut. I'm too cheap. I'm also not an early adopter. I prefer someone else test the gear for a decade or so, and if it holds up and the price drops enough I'll consider it. While I do own my own body armor, I probably have more cash tied up in fedoras. Fedora slut? Is that a thing?

  8. #8
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I have been, and continue to be, too enamored with gear. I freely admit that I'm ALWAYS looking for the next best thing to help me be faster, more agile, more accurate, etc. I can also freely admit that if I spent some of my "searching" time working out, or dry firing, I would be faster, more agile, more accurate - the list goes on.

    My first trip to the box taught me a lot of lessons about what I'd READ about and heard about, versus what it's like in the real world.

    I don't think the author is necessarily being fair to "Carl," but we probably don't have the whole story. I'm "Carl" to a lot of my agency, because I spend time learning about firearms trends, body armor advancements, ammunition advancements, training drills, etc. I'm "Carl" because I carry a BUG, and I'm not afraid to let people know. I'm "Carl" because I carry personal weapons rather than sticking with our issued Sig P229R DAK. I'm "Carl" because I go to every training course offered, and spend my own money on training the agency won't fund. I'm "Carl" because I've bought my own hard plates and carrier (I'm the only LEO in a building of several hundred employees - and 1st responders are a ways away).

    But, if "Carl" went beyond a commitment to wearing kit all the time by constantly talking about combat he'd never seen, and wouldn't engage in, then "Carl" deserves a little guff.

    Regards,

    Kevin

  9. #9
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    My Carl phase was non-military in nature. I am a former elite athlete, I have several medals from international competition and I was a member of the US Olympic team. My sport is equipment intensive and the equipment is expensive. When I was coming up there were lots of guys who bought the latest and greatest, as though it were possible to buy speed. I did this once, buying an expensive Swiss made piece of gear. It didn't make me faster... So I sold it and bought with what little money I had left a well used example of what the experienced guys said to get and were in fact using. I had to fix it first but it was the E ticket I was looking for.

  10. #10
    If you don't mind, what sport?

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