Temple Index

[jondoe297]

My two cents, based upon my own (admittedly limited) experience as a novice instructor, is that many people, both instructor and non-trained gun toter (and I'm not referring to anyone here, rather the gun toting outside world) tend to pick a single position, be it T.I., Sul, Low Ready, etc, and view it as a one size fits all solution, not considering that situations are fluid, not static. I've never been through a class with Costa, Haley, Vickers, etc, so I have no clue what they teach, but from what I've seen from most of the local yokels around here, none of them convey to the student that different situations can call for different methods of handling the gun.
I've been through two LE academies (federal level and local level), and neither taught moving with the gun out. They taught low-ready for standing with the gun out, but not pointed at a target, and that was it. For running, it was "gun in holster, retention engaged, hand on gun" in both. In-service "training" at my current agency retains that same dogma.

[SouthNarc]

in short duration burst like one car length in a linear moment pressing and keeping steady positive pressure works.


But for long movement like open areas and crowds there are better options.

Hey stud good hearing from you and it has indeed been to long.

So with the way you've qualified it within the context of say de-bussing under fire and duckwalking to the end of a car, below line of sight where one is LOOKING at where they're going and where they're going to stop, and NOT scanning for other threats, then yes....I can see teaching that to line officers for whom shooting and tactics is not their passion. Personally I would prefer to see more of the gun and be able to better relate the relationship of the muzzle to the environment through a combination of vision and tactility, BUT for such a brief moment, that's a minor quibble.

[breakingtime91]

Well, you could just run normally with it in your hand. Pat Macnamara does this. Grunting, "blaze ops....gas it up, let's burn it down. Getchu' some!" Is scientifically proven to make you run faster and shoot straighter.

You could hold it in a sul-ish or muzzle-depressed compressed ready position.

You could run with it in a #2 retention shooting position. Dave Spaulding teaches this.

You could run with it pointed at the target, or at a low ready, given you can sprint while shooting at the target.

I guess idk how those are better then high port which is what kyle defoor teaches. Its within my vision and is close to my default high ready position.

[Steve f]

Hey stud good hearing from you and it has indeed been to long.

So with the way you've qualified it within the context of say de-bussing under fire and duckwalking to the end of a car, below line of sight where one is LOOKING at where they're going and where they're going to stop, and NOT scanning for other threats, then yes....I can see teaching that to line officers for whom shooting and tactics is not their passion. Personally I would prefer to see more of the gun and be able to better relate the relationship of the muzzle to the environment through a combination of vision and tactility, BUT for such a brief moment, that's a minor quibble.

their yah have it, the primary use is working it around others in confined space aka container the car, and or around others when moving into or out of place not sweeping one self as we often seen brachial arteries
or femoral, pelvic region.

[Chance]

Fell forward pinning his forearm under his torso and put a pellet under his chin.

I'm curious to hear thoughts about this. I've seen it mentioned that if you take a stumble, and the pistol is oriented down, the muzzle is probably going to end up in the ground. While that could create a stoppage, in the event of an ND, at least you'd know where the round went, rather than into you, or potentially someone in front of you. If you kept the muzzle oriented into the air and stumbled, it might keep the muzzle off the deck, but potentially at the expense of pointing it at your upper extremities, or pointing it at someone in front of you.

This would extend to both ready positions, as well as the "preparatory positions", as Spaulding calls them. I guess this goes back to breakingtime91's question of running with the pistol.

Skip to 6 minutes. Dave Spaulding discussing the TI: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDst9H34ek

I experimented with my SIRT, and Spaulding's ready position keeps the point of impact of the laser almost exactly the same distance from my foot as sul, just at about the 2 o'clock, rather than the 10 o'clock. If you're turning your torso to scan and assess, the POI comes even closer to the foot.

It seems that if the pistol is welded to your torso, and oriented down, that's just what you're going to expect, which is what DB was talking about.

[SLG]

that was a late night typo as in i had no issues with the clarification and its just facts

I'm tracking now, thanks.

Just to further clarify, background matters to me when discussing "tactical stuff". Shooting, not so much. You either can shoot, or you can't. Background is not the be all end all, but it is important. I would NEVER denigrate someone based on occupation, in or out of the LE/MIL world, and hope you didn't take it that way. I can be a little curmudgeonly on the internet.

Given your explanation of the TI in response to Southnarc's questioning, I too have less of an issue with it. I do lament the dumbing down of combative training for our non enthusiast police, but reality is what it is. I try to stick to training enthusiasts, new or old, in order to not get frustrated more than I should.

[Steve f]

I'm tracking now, thanks.

Just to further clarify, background matters to me when discussing "tactical stuff". Shooting, not so much. You either can shoot, or you can't. Background is not the be all end all, but it is important. I would NEVER denigrate someone based on occupation, in or out of the LE/MIL world, and hope you didn't take it that way. I can be a little curmudgeonly on the internet.

Given your explanation of the TI in response to Southnarc's questioning, I too have less of an issue with it. I do lament the dumbing down of combative training for our non enthusiast police, but reality is what it is. I try to stick to training enthusiasts, new or old, in order to not get frustrated more than I should.

Non taken, i wear big boy pants.... hope to meet you some day some place talk shop

[SLG]

Non taken, i wear big boy pants.... hope to meet you some day some place talk shop

Sounds good. Preferably on a range. I've seen some video of you shooting and your recoil control is impressive looking.

[xmanhockey7]

Sounds good. Preferably on a range. I've seen some video of you shooting and your recoil control is impressive looking.

That's because he's a yeti. When he holds a 5" 1911 it looks like an average dude holding a Sig 238.

[Chance B.]

That's because he's a yeti. When he holds a 5" 1911 it looks like an average dude holding a Sig 238.

The best demonstration of that has to be the video of him shooting a modified VTAC 1-5 Drill with a Barrett M107 .50cal.