Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: Week 121: Hackathorn Standards

  1. #1
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets

    Week 121: Hackathorn Standards

    Week 121: Hackathorn Standards

    Results may be posted until August 17th, 2015.

    Designed by: Ken Hackathorn, variations by Ben Stoeger and Gabe White
    Range: 5-25 yards
    Target: USPSA Metric or IDPA
    Start Position: varies
    Rounds Fired: 60

    The Hackathorn Standards are a revered standard in the tactical training world and are what the IDPA Classifier is based on. The Hackathorn Standards have several versions that vary by par time. You can choose which version(s) you want to shoot.

    Setup: Place three USPSA Metric or IDPA targets one yard apart at staggered heights of 5', 6', and 4' (from left to right.) A vertical barricade of some kind is also needed.

    Scoring: Anywhere in the head = 5 points, A/-0 zone = 5 points, C/-1 zone = 3 points, D/-3 zone = 2 points, miss = 0 points. If a head shot is required and it hits somewhere in the body, it counts as a miss. If a body shot is required and it hits somewhere in the head, it still scores 5 points. No make-up/extra shots are allowed. There are 300 points possible. Traditionally, a score below 200 Needs Improvement, 200-249 is Acceptable, and 250 or more is Excellent.

    Concealment is not required. All strings of fire start from the holster with hands at sides, and may be fired freestyle (two hands) unless otherwise specified. All shots are to the body unless the head is specified.

    ---

    Kiddie Version - (only two shooters are known to have shot a perfect 300 on the "Kiddie Version" - Kyle Defoor and Ben Stoeger.) Each par time has a .3 second grace period - for example, if the par time is 3 seconds, only shots over 3.3 seconds are officially over time and count as misses.

    String 1: 5 yards, draw and fire one shot to each head - 3 seconds
    String 2: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each head - 4 seconds
    String 3: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 3 seconds
    String 4: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 3 seconds (repeat of String 3)

    String 5: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the left target - 2 seconds
    String 6: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the center target - 2 seconds
    String 7: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the right target - 2 seconds

    String 8: 10 yards, El Presidente, begin facing uprange with exactly six rounds in pistol, on signal, turn, draw, fire two shots to each target, reload from slidelock, and fire two shots to each target - 10 seconds

    String 9: 10 yards, weak hand pickup, begin standing, pistol is on the ground with butt towards strong side, on signal retrieve handgun WHO and fire one shot to each target WHO from kneeling or standing - 5 seconds

    String 10: 12-8 yards, draw and fire two shots to each target while advancing from 12 to 8 yards - 5 seconds

    String 11: 15 yards, (transition drill) begin with hands at shoulder level as if holding a rifle, on signal draw handgun and fire one shot to each target - 4 seconds

    String 12: 20 yards, (prone drill) begin standing, on signal draw and drop to prone and fire two shots to each target - 10 seconds

    String 13: 25 yards, (barricade drill) begin standing behind barricade, on signal draw and fire two shots to each target from cover while standing, perform a tactical/retention reload, then fire two shots to each target from kneeling behind barricade - 24 seconds

    ---

    Manly Man Version (Ben Stoeger variation) - only increase par times by .2 seconds per string if shooting from concealment, otherwise no grace period.

    String 1: 5 yards, draw and fire one shot to each head - 2.5 seconds
    String 2: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each head - 3.5 seconds
    String 3: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 2.5 seconds
    String 4: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 2.5 seconds (repeat of String 3)

    String 5: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the left target - 1.2 seconds
    String 6: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the center target - 1.2 seconds
    String 7: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the right target - 1.2 seconds

    String 8: 10 yards, El Presidente, begin facing uprange with exactly six rounds in pistol, on signal, turn, draw, fire two shots to each target, reload from slidelock, and fire two shots to each target - 6.5 seconds

    String 9: 10 yards, weak hand pickup, begin standing, pistol is on the ground with butt towards strong side, on signal retrieve handgun WHO and fire one shot to each target WHO from kneeling or standing - 4 seconds

    String 10: 12-8 yards, draw and fire two shots to each target while advancing from 12 to 8 yards - 3.5 seconds

    String 11: 15 yards, (transition drill) begin with hands at shoulder level as if holding a rifle, on signal draw handgun and fire one shot to each target - 3 seconds

    String 12: 20 yards, (prone drill) begin standing, on signal draw and drop to prone and fire two shots to each target - 7 seconds

    String 13: 25 yards, (barricade drill) begin standing behind barricade, on signal draw and fire two shots to each target from cover while standing, perform a tactical/retention reload, then fire two shots to each target from kneeling behind barricade - 11 seconds

    ---

    Revised Turbo Version (Gabe White variation) - there's no grace period on the streets, so no grace period on this course either, you just need to keep up.

    String 1: 5 yards, draw and fire one shot to each head - 2 seconds
    String 2: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each head - 3 seconds
    String 3: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 2 seconds
    String 4: 5 yards, SHO, draw and fire one shot to each body - 2 seconds (repeat of String 3)

    String 5: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the left target - 1.1 seconds
    String 6: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the center target - 1.1 seconds
    String 7: 8 yards, draw and fire two shots to the right target - 1.1 seconds

    String 8: 10 yards, El Presidente, begin facing uprange with exactly six rounds in pistol, on signal, turn, draw, fire two shots to each target, reload from slidelock, and fire two shots to each target - 6 seconds

    String 9: 10 yards, weak hand pickup, begin standing, pistol is on the ground with butt towards strong side, on signal retrieve handgun WHO and fire one shot to each target WHO from kneeling or standing - 4 seconds

    String 10: 12-8 yards, draw and fire two shots to each target while advancing from 12 to 8 yards - 3 seconds

    String 11: 15 yards, (transition drill) begin with hands at shoulder level as if holding a rifle, on signal draw handgun and fire one shot to each target - 3 seconds

    String 12: 20 yards, (prone drill) begin standing, on signal draw and drop to prone and fire two shots to each target - 6 seconds

    String 13: 25 yards, (barricade drill) begin standing behind barricade, on signal draw and fire two shots to each target from cover while standing, perform a tactical/retention reload, then fire two shots to each target from kneeling behind barricade - 10 seconds

    ---

    Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

    Equipment used (gun, holster, concealment if any)
    Version you shot
    Total number of points out of 300 possible
    Anything you noticed

    ---

    Video of Ben Stoeger's perfect 300 point run on the Kiddie Version:



    Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
    0
     

  2. #2
    Member JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia
    Just for the record the so called "Kiddie" version is also the original Delta version; is it not? Eh? Eh?

    No combat roll. Good.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
    0
     

  3. #3
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Just for the record the so called "Kiddie" version is also the original Delta version; is it not? Eh? Eh?

    No combat roll. Good.
    I'm not really sure of the answer to your actual question. As I understand it, the Original had the combat rolls, point shooting, and I think I read about some uprange facing start where you drew and shot behind you without facing downrange (vague recollection, sorry no reference there) though the document I have doesn't show that last part. I don't know which one Delta used, though I've always assumed it to be the one now referred to as the "Kiddie" version.

    This one is going to be fun!
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
    0
     

  4. #4
    Member JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Georgia
    It is. And here I'm trying to get more in the "zone" of Pat Mac performance based instead of outcome based and I am sucked in with chasing another number. LOL
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
    0
     

  5. #5
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    It is. And here I'm trying to get more in the "zone" of Pat Mac performance based instead of outcome based and I am sucked in with chasing another number. LOL
    Well, lol is right for me on that too. One thing I find really fun about the different par time variations on the Hack is the different character of shooting they make me (try to) produce. Many of the Kiddie Version's par times are painfully slow to me and it's really tough to use the time available - not that I have shot it clean, though I have come really close. My original Turbo version was halved pars across the board. Ben was right about that one; it's just too hard. I'd lose a ton of points to running out of time. If I made it happen within the par times there would be a lot of bad shots involved. The Revised Turbo version is reasonably doable, but many parts are still quite unforgiving. Ben's Manly Man version has pretty well thought out par times IMHO. They get a doable amount of time pressure involved without making the wheels come completely off. But the tougher par times definitely make it more of a challenge to get on the board with any points.

    There are two sayings that I think are well-applied to these different versions of the Hack:

    "If you aren't accurate enough, it doesn't matter how fast you are." (Original and Kiddie Versions)

    "If you aren't fast enough, it doesn't matter how accurate you are." (Manly Man and Turbo Versions)
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
    0
     

  6. #6
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets
    Posting this on behalf of a someone who doesn't normally post publicly but wanted to get in on this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by A Seasoned GLOCK Instructor View Post
    Equipment used (gun, holster, concealment if any): G43, Talon Tactical holster and magazine pouch, magazines with finger extensions, Warren night sights
    Version you shot: Kiddie Version with IDPA targets
    Total number of points: 240/300
    Nicely done Sir!
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
    0
     

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    Many of the Kiddie Version's par times are painfully slow to me
    Cyborging ain't easy.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
    0
     

  8. #8
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets
    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    Cyborging ain't easy.
    Lol!

    Well...I tried to be really clear that I haven't cleaned the Hack under those par times, so I don't mean that I'm just 'better' than the standard set - I am not. It's just that on the time component, I'm as careful as I feel like I can make myself be and I still haven't used all the time (on some of the strings anyway.) Some people would probably characterize that as a self-control issue on my part.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
    0
     

  9. #9
    I shot the kitty version less than a month ago (G34 OWB Blackhawk DOH) and got a 234. It pains for me to read that the times are painfully slow for you, because they are not slow for me!
    0
     

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northwest
    294 - first thing I shot today.

    Glock 34; USPSA Production Gear

    Dropped 1 on shooting while moving, which is a pretty lazy place to drop a shot. Dropped two on prone shooting which I think is pretty difficult. Ended up prone shooting as practice. Captured one with my cell phone. Still wasn't clean. In about 10 reps, I only cleaned 1. Usually dropped 1, sometimes two. Here's a vid. .
    Last edited by Tom_Jones; 07-31-2015 at 11:50 PM. Reason: embedded video
    A71593
    0
     

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •