2015 Glock 19 GEN 4 Handguns still unreliable / have design flaws

[Patrin]

Gents, I want to apologize up front, I could not find a 'new user' section on the site and would have liked to properly introduce myself.

I'm new as a member, but not as a researcher for information on this forum. For some time, I have referenced this site for new pistol drills, opinions on carry methods and interesting updates on the pistol-training newsletter.

I appreciate the hard work of SME's and members have dedicated to this site.

As I said, I am mostly a reader and post here to offer some recent data on current manufactured generation 4 Glock 19s, a popular pistol choice.

I have a fair background in pistol shooting:

- Issued and shot extensively HK P2000 in .40 while employed with the Border Patrol.
- Issued and shot, very extensively, P229 in .357 SIG while employed with the Federal Air Marshal Service.

I assume, humbly, that I know how a reliable sidearm functions and feels. That I know how to clean and maintain my pistols appropriately.

Until a few months ago, I've shot only COLT carbines, SIG P229 pistols (9mm, .40, .357SIG) and SIG P232 pistols (.380) for many years.

The start of summer here in FL this year, once again, began the compromise I've been making for a number of years with my concealed carry pistol choice.

I've grown tired of carrying a heavy, fully-loaded (15 + 1) P229 in the FL heat. I have a Milt Sparks VM2, JM AIWB holster, good belts and yet, I still find my P229 not totally comfortable...in the heat.

Often, in the summer, I am carrying my tried and true SIG P232 .380 with 8 rounds + 1 spare magazine. I shoot the gun well and I am confident in it.

Coupled with the heat, and what I see going on this country, this is a compromise I'm no longer willing to make. I decided the time had come to select a reliable, lighter, compact carry weapon with a minimum 15 round magazine capacity.

I have been very reluctant to not carry a SIG platform, given that I have personally verified it, through ALOT of shooting, to be dependable and reliable.

Carry what you know is reliable and all that.

When making a new selection I did some research on this forum, comparing / contrasting MP's, HK VP9 and the SIG P320...I also checked these pistols out in person:

- HK VP9, good trigger, too big for me to CC (5'9" 150 pounds), too new and not established
- SIG P320, good trigger, right size and capacity, no trigger safety, too new and not established.
- M&P, awful trigger, too big, good capacity, trigger safety, bad reputation (compact doesn't meet my criteria).
- Glock 19, good predictable trigger, right size and capacity, good reputation for reliability until intro. of Gen 4; problems supposed to be fixed with BTF.

I chose the Glock 19 for it's reputation of reliability. Further, I chose it because I didn't want to play the reliability guessing game; dive in, shoot and drive on.

First Glock 19 purchased 04/15 with 04/15 manufacture date...inspected, cleaned and lubed.

At range break-in, first 500 rounds, reliable, no 'brass to face'. Ammo used was WWB 115gr and Speer GOLD DOT 124gr HP. I shoot the Glock 19 with a consistent 5-6 point increase over my carry P229 9mm on the FAM PPC course. I use the course as a test of my fundamentals.

Satisfied with the performance of my first purchase, I purchase two more Glock 19's, manufacture dates of 05/15 and 06/15. One for carry, one for training, one as a spare / parts.

Inspected, cleaned and lubed.

Do a range break-in for these two 19's.

05/15 G19 gives me 'brass to face' from round 1 through 200. 06/15 gives me 'brass to face' through 100 rounds. BFT in both guns occurred at a rate of 4-6 for every 10 rounds. Ammo used was WWB 115gr, Blazer brass 115gr and 124gr GD. BTF with all ammo. Magazines used were new 15 round factory magazines that came with the pistols and both guns were stock with 30274 ejectors.

I was done wasting ammo for the day until I again inspected, cleaned and lubed.

In addition, I ordered some APEX FRE's with the proper non-LCI bearings to try out.

Next range trip, with APEX FRE's installed with non-LCI bearings. 05/15 BTF first 100 rounds, same rate as before. 06/15 starts with a stovepipe and BTF through 100 rounds. I drop in the factory extractor assembly from the 04/15 gun into the 06/15 gun to see what it does...BTF is the result. Re-install factory extractor assembly back into 04/15 gun and shoot it in some drills to attempt to finish my range session without more problems. 04/15 through 300 rounds shoots the first 100 without incident, but the last 200 develops BTF. Ammo used WWB 115gr, Blazer brass 115gr, Speer Lawman 115gr and some 124 GD 124gr HP. BTF with all ammo in factory magazines.

In the next range trip I tried the following; APEX FRE with stock extractor spring and LCI bearing, APEX FRE with APEX spring and factory LCI, APEX FRE with stock extractor spring and non-LCI bearing, swapped factory extractors between guns...all combos resulted in BTF, with no stovepipes to report.

At this point I am convinced the current crop of 2015 Glock 19's are not reliable guns, period.

All had 30274 ejectors, the latest RSA's and factory magazines. Guns developed BTF with stock and APEX parts and with ammo that has functioned with 100% reliability through every SIG 9mm pistol I own or have owned.

Ammo as an excuse does not apply here...simply doesn't past the smell test. These are either combat reliable handguns or not.

In closing, as I said at the start, I'm submitting the information as data points of my experience of current manufacture Glock 19's. I know they are popular side arms and this information should be out there.

For now, I'm back to cc'ing my P232 and P229...until my CZ P07 is ready from CGW for a spin; of which I again thank this forum for introducing the CZ model to me.

Mike Pannone's praise of it gives me confidence, particularly knowing that he worked for a time in the FAMS service and knows what the criteria for a reliable handgun is.

Humbly submitted,

Patrin.

[Kyle Reese]

Patrin,
Very sorry to hear that. I've been on the fence about picking up a Gen 4 19 for a while, and given the reports of spotty reliability, I think I'll give it a few more years.

I think you'll dig the CGW P-07, FWIW. Thank you for this informative post and welcome to our forum. We're glad to have you.

[WobblyPossum]

It's really disappointing to hear that people are still getting guns that come from the factory with ejection issues. I have a Gen4 G19 with a test fire date of 04/30/2015. At this point I've shot 1000 rounds through it (800 rounds of 115gr S&B and 200 rounds of 124gr Freedom Munitions reman). I've taken brass to the face twice. I have experienced no other malfunctions that I did not purposefully cause for training.

I have a 2011 Gen3 G19 that was problematic from the beginning. BTF at the same rate you're describing along with occasional stovepipes. I switched to the 30274 ejector, the APEX FRE, the APEX extractor spring and a non-LCI bearing and the gun has worked fine since.

It's really bothering me that the common fixes work for some guns and not others. Have people figured out what's causing these variations yet?

[breakingtime91]

Patrin,
Very sorry to hear that. I've been on the fence about picking up a Gen 4 19 for a while, and given the reports of spotty reliability, I think I'll give it a few more years.

I think you'll dig the CGW P-07, FWIW. Thank you for this informative post and welcome to our forum. We're glad to have you.

same, I may just have to run my 2006 g19 into the dirt...

[SLG]

Patrin,

The weight difference between a Sig 229 and a G19 is not that great. Less than 6oz, IIRC. Given your experience with Sigs,
(and my preferences:-), I would just carry the 229 and call it good. Regardless of the fickle gun industry, a TDA Sig gives up nothing to any other combat pistol out there. I would be more than happy to switch back to a Sig.

I'm pretty familiar with your agency's training so forgive the question, but, what belt are you using?

[HCM]

When our agency was in he process of adding 9mm Glocks to our authorized Personally Owned Weapons list in 2011 they did some additional testing on the Gen 4's as they hadn't been part of the DHS testing back in 04/05. Suffice to say, based on those results, and experience with legacy U.S. Customs issued Glock 19's, we are only authorized Glock 17's and 26's regardless of generation.

We have about 60 Glock shooters locally. I've only seen one problematic gun, a 2014 Gen 4 26 which began BTF and failures to extract about 3 months ago, at about 1k rounds. Replacing the Extractor with a factory unit cured it for about 100 rounds then the FTE re-occurred. We then replaced both the Extractor and the complete Spring Loaded Bearing assembly. So far so good.

[GJM]

If I am reading your report right, you experienced one stovepipe and lots of BTF in three pistols. Glock shooters must measure reliability in stoppages/malfunctions/breakage, or they will be very unhappy. My friend, YVK, has a 19 with over 15,000 trouble free rounds. I have watched it sprinkle rounds all over the place. My Glock pistols do not suffer stoppages, but sprinkle rounds all around. They do not eject/extract like a CZ, Sig or HK.

With your Sig background, I would think you would be very satisfied with a 320 Compact. It is accurate, points like a P series, is reliable and relatively lightweight. The only issue is no hammer or thumb safety. Based in my experience, you will shoot it as well or better than a 19.

While I prioritize shootability in a game gun, it is only one criteria I consider in a carry gun. I am also interested in reliability, size, weight, quality and safety. Right now, until the 320 gets a thumb safety, a DA/SA P2000 is at the top of my list for a G19 size carry gun.

[Patrin]

SLG, I don't have a scale to verify the 6 ounces. Grab one and then the other, carry one and then the other is my comparison.

In the very brief carry with the first 04/15, G19, it was more comfortable, both in weight and length of the butt of the pistol. I carry mostly AIWB.

For belts I use leather Belt man belts, Wilderness FF 5 stitch and, for training, standard Wilderness tactical belt, 5 stitch with polymer insert.

If the P07 turns a dud, I agree, I will look no further than the P229's I own. The P07 is a bit smaller in profile, particularly the butt and a few ounces lighter.

Thank you for the welcome gents.

[HCM]

Another alternative to the G19 or going back to the 229 would be the HK USPC, P2000 and P2000sk. The 2000 and the 2000sk in particular are sleek and carry well. Not sure what your impression of the HK's was in BP, with the 155 grain 40, but I can tell you in 9mm it's a whole other animal.

[Pennzoil]

I assumed the same about the p-07 but mine has been extremely unreliable. Basically was a single shot first 200rds until the recoil and hammer spring were lightened but now it ejects brass towards face and sometimes over slide hitting my thumbs on the other side of the slide. Worst handgun I've owned by far. To bad like the size and trigger.