The PX4 Compact might be my DA/SA Glock 19

[Mike C]

Not NP3'd, Mike. Normally, I'd say extractor with a stove pipe, but with these guns I don't know how rotating barrel contributes. I will run this one dry at some point, although from other sources my info is that these do not tolerate dryness nearly as well as Glocks and HKs do.

Thank you YVK. Isn’t DB running a set with NP3? It will be interesting to hear how they run for you when intentionally run dry. I don’t imagine they do well dry. They seem to run like a Singer when they’re lubed though. I was impressed by the short stent I had with one. I thought they were piles originally but that seems to not be the case. Have these completely replaced the P30’s for you?

[YVK]

Seems like they have. I still have one P30 and one P2000sk but I am committed to PX4CC. I find that are trade-offs between the two in different aspects of performance but on my body Berettas conceal so much better than HKs and Glocks. Concealment is a huge deal for me. I do have to admit that I've been so focused on my competition this spring / summer / fall that I may have had like three sessions with PX4CC at most. So I am really in an evaluative stage still but, as long as yesterday's stoppage was a fluke, these will stick around.

[SteveB]

I have 2 Mod 4’s. While I don’t keep exact round counts on most guns, the first gun, passed the 2000 round challenge (no cleaning) with no issues. I cleaned it after the first 2K, but not since, although I have field stripped it and wiped off the barrel with a paper towel. NP3 is great stuff. It’s my primary trainer and gets shot a lot. The second gun is my primary carry, so it doesn’t get shot much. No function issues with either pistol. Lube is TW25B. Like YVK, this pistol conceals really well for me. Really, the only bitch I have about it is getting used to the slide-mounted low-pro decocker. The most intuitive decocker I’ve used was the HK P2000 V3; easy to hit that thing without dicking around with my grip. The PX4CC is so good for me in every other regard that I’m spending the time with it to get comfortable with the decocker.

[Mike C]

I have 2 Mod 4’s. While I don’t keep exact round counts on most guns, the first gun, passed the 2000 round challenge (no cleaning) with no issues. I cleaned it after the first 2K, but not since, although I have field stripped it and wiped off the barrel with a paper towel. NP3 is great stuff. It’s my primary trainer and gets shot a lot. The second gun is my primary carry, so it doesn’t get shot much. No function issues with either pistol. Lube is TW25B. Like YVK, this pistol conceals really well for me. Really, the only bitch I have about it is getting used to the slide-mounted low-pro decocker. The most intuitive decocker I’ve used was the HK P2000 V3; easy to hit that thing without dicking around with my grip. The PX4CC is so good for me in every other regard that I’m spending the time with it to get comfortable with the decocker.

I just sent a PM to YVK with some questions last night relating to some of these things. SteveB, I forgot you were running P2000's. In your experience so for do you feel the NP3 is just icing on the cake as far as the reliability goes on the PX4CC or that it is more of a necessity to aid in function as the gun displaces the lube or lube dries off?

[Dagga Boy]

Thank you YVK. Isn’t DB running a set with NP3? It will be interesting to hear how they run for you when intentionally run dry. I don’t imagine they do well dry. They seem to run like a Singer when they’re lubed though. I was impressed by the short stent I had with one. I thought they were piles originally but that seems to not be the case. Have these completely replaced the P30’s for you?

Seems like they have. I still have one P30 and one P2000sk but I am committed to PX4CC. I find that are trade-offs between the two in different aspects of performance but on my body Berettas conceal so much better than HKs and Glocks. Concealment is a huge deal for me. I do have to admit that I've been so focused on my competition this spring / summer / fall that I may have had like three sessions with PX4CC at most. So I am really in an evaluative stage still but, as long as yesterday's stoppage was a fluke, these will stick around.

I am at the same place with the PX4CC's. Could go back to my HK's easily, and with no issues. The PX4CC simply is about perfect for an 16-18 hour a day AIWB gun under light clothing, which is my life. Combined with it being "arthritis friendly", I couldn't be happier. I honestly think they really need to be Robar/Langdon Mod 4 or 5's though to REALLY appreciate them and put them into HK territory.

I just sent a PM to YVK with some questions last night relating to some of these things. SteveB, I forgot you were running P2000's. In your experience so for do you feel the NP3 is just icing on the cake as far as the reliability goes on the PX4CC or that it is more of a necessity to aid in function as the gun displaces the lube or lube dries off?

I was nervous about this barrel system and it's one big negative of they do not like be be run dry or corroded from what I have seen and heard. For me, the NP3 is an absolute must with them, and is the insurance policy. I had an incident recently with a bad factory overcharged Round that initiated the dreaded "PX4 lock up". I heard the stories of needing mallets to get them open when this occurs and the gun was certainly locked up in a way that normal malfunction clearing will not clear it. In my case, I was able to get the gun unlocked and cleared with simple grunt strength. It has really anchored the importance to me of using Mod 4 or 5 guns for me.

[Redhat]

...I had an incident recently with a bad factory overcharged Round that initiated the dreaded "PX4 lock up". I heard the stories of needing mallets to get them open when this occurs and the gun was certainly locked up in a way that normal malfunction clearing will not clear it. In my case, I was able to get the gun unlocked and cleared with simple grunt strength. It has really anchored the importance to me of using Mod 4 or 5 guns for me.

Wait...what? I haven't heard anything about this condition or what causes it?

[Dagga Boy]

Wait...what? I haven't heard anything about this condition or what causes it?

Much of the "condition" came from a Todd Green post in 2009:

"As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy."

Don't know about validity, truth, if it was an actual gun issue or maintenance issue, etc. I was simply aware of some discussion. For me, the guns have been reliable as mine are all NP3'd. For what it's worth,being around LEO's with guns does not give me the warm and fuzzy' sin regards to real issues versus self inflicted problems. I figure it is safe to say, the PX4 is a gun that likes being wet. Same thing we saw with a long history with the SiG P series guns. NP3 was very popular at my old agency with the P series guns, and it alleviates any potential issues for guns and systems that seem to work best with a lot of lubrication,

[YVK]

Mike, I typed up a thesis of a reply and then the website froze and it got lost. So I am posting here to tell you that I got your pm and I'll reply again today or tomorrow.

[Redhat]

Much of the "condition" came from a Todd Green post in 2009:

"As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy."

Don't know about validity, truth, if it was an actual gun issue or maintenance issue, etc. I was simply aware of some discussion. For me, the guns have been reliable as mine are all NP3'd. For what it's worth,being around LEO's with guns does not give me the warm and fuzzy' sin regards to real issues versus self inflicted problems. I figure it is safe to say, the PX4 is a gun that likes being wet. Same thing we saw with a long history with the SiG P series guns. NP3 was very popular at my old agency with the P series guns, and it alleviates any potential issues for guns and systems that seem to work best with a lot of lubrication,

That doesn't exactly line up with Earnest Langdon's posts about the design but maybe he keeps them lubricated. I'm not one to let my guns go dry but I'm on the fence about the pistol right now, I've looked at it a few times in the GS but haven't decided yet. If it's a lack of lube problem that doesn't really cause me concern, but if it's something else...it definitely does.

[Mike C]

In my case, I was able to get the gun unlocked and cleared with simple grunt strength. It has really anchored the importance to me of using Mod 4 or 5 guns for me.

I've only seen you in photos but it sounds to me that being built like a small viking is working out well for you. On a serious note I appreciate your info on the NP3, I feel the same about the barrel system, great to have your perspective.

ETA: @Dagga Boy, can you explain what the dreaded lock up is?