HK USP 45 field pistol

[JRB]

I'll keep digging for the reference I first read, that link isn't it.

But I remember the actual text of the law basically reads that it's illegal to carry lead ammo in any firearm in broad ranges of the state based on what wildlife range in those areas, and it being always illegal for a regular citizen to shoot any kind of animal with lead ammo, even if it's self defense against a predator or dangerous animal.

That is, IIRC, and our fellow P-Fer from Cali taking such precautions to avoid carrying lead-free ammo reminded me of that read-through of the lead-free-ammo law that passed in Cali.

[Clusterfrack]

Wow. That would be seriously fucked up.

[GJM]

I'll keep digging for the reference I first read, that link isn't it.

But I remember the actual text of the law basically reads that it's illegal to carry lead ammo in any firearm in broad ranges of the state based on what wildlife range in those areas, and it being always illegal for a regular citizen to shoot any kind of animal with lead ammo, even if it's self defense against a predator or dangerous animal.

That is, IIRC, and our fellow P-Fer from Cali taking such precautions to avoid carrying lead-free ammo reminded me of that read-through of the lead-free-ammo law that passed in Cali.

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonl...nal-protection

Snippet:

The regulations do not require use of nonlead ammunition when target shooting. Use of lead projectiles for target shooting is legal unless CDFW or another government entity has determined otherwise for lands they administer. The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife. With the exception of ammunition for concealable firearms possessed for personal protection, hunters may not possess lead ammunition along with a firearm capable of firing that ammunition.

[GJM]

https://www.fishwildlife.org/law-res...ing-california

[Salamander]

Can you expand on that? Is there a restriction on lead bullets for CCW?

No, there's no restriction for CCW and in fact in town I carry the usual standby's, usually 9mm GDHP. We have some stupid laws here, but not that.

The non-lead thing is based on conversations with CDFW game wardens. Most of them here are biologists first and LE second, thus the local guys are members of the local Wildlife Society chapter and during three years on the local chapter board I got to know them pretty well. Then, about the time the non-lead regs fully phased in, two of those guys were covering a checkerboard of state and private lands that happened to be one of my project sites. It's a mix of dunes and wetlands and scrub with all the usual large critters (black bear, elk, occasional mountain lion) plus a substantial homeless population, most of them with pit bulls. Or at least there were until the contractors showed up with big yellow machines to take out some of the old roads, we found a lot fewer discarded needles after that. Anyway we had lots of time to talk out there, and I asked those guys their opinions. If, hypothetically, it became necessary to shoot one of those pit bulls, or one of the slightly less common native critters, did that still need to be non-lead under the new regs even though it's not hunting?

His answer was that in his opinion the non-lead regs applied only to hunting, and that it would be OK to carry conventional ammo in a CCW firearm at the same time as long as it wasn't used for intentional hunting of game species. However he also said that most wardens are not gun guys, some know the regs better than others, and that if it was him he would carry non-lead ammo in any non-urban, natural habitat setting just to avoid the risk of misunderstanding and/or poor judgement. He also noted that the regs are a little ambiguous making misinterpretation easier, and that it's up to the interpretation of the individual game warden.

After some thought I decided to take his advice. It actually simplifies things for me. In town it's business as usual, I have a good supply of Gold Dots. Since I don't generally carry a USP45 in town, it's easy to keep those magazines loaded with non-lead and grab them when heading out to a wilderness area or anyplace else where wildlife encounters are likely. Since there are good choices in non-lead ammo for both 9mm and 45acp, it doesn't bother me to do that. If I stop for lunch in a town on the way back from the trailhead, by then I have copper hollow points back in there with a simple magazine change.

Would I do the same thing in some other state? Probably not for pistols, but who knows.

I have been converted for hunting though. Last year I was RSO for a demonstration of non-lead ammo by a NPS biologist. Two things: On the day after the workshop he let me shoot a bunch of non-lead ammo paid for by my (and your) federal tax dollars, and some of those loads were like laser beams out of my .308, sub-MOA for most and the best was 5/8 inch at 100 yards. That's with minimal concentration and carrying on a conversation while shooting off a bipod. And, during the workshop, he shot lead into ballistic gel and showed us the cross sections. A whole bunch of lead had come off those projectiles after impact, and a lot further out in the gel than any of us had expected. Somewhere I have a photo, will try to find it. But the copper rounds were all intact. Enough of a demonstration that anything I might eat is getting taken down with a copper bullet from now on.


ETA: Photos from the NPS workshop. Conventional .308 hunting commercial loads in the gel, and a shot from the lab with projectile and lead removed.

[RevolverRob]

Since Barnes Tac-XP works well and is a monolithic non-lead design - perhaps just converting over to that entirely would prevent any future problems.

[GJM]

Wonder whether the cougar was shot with lead free ammo?

https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival...ck-california/

Are there lead free quality JHP loads for .40, 10mm and .45?

[1Rangemaster]

Wonder whether the cougar was shot with lead free ammo?

https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival...ck-california/

Are there lead free quality JHP loads for .40, 10mm and .45?

…shows Underwood listing in.45acp a 200 gr. “Extreme Penetrator” load @1000fps advertised. It’s the Lehigh spiral solid copper design. I haven’t seen any reports on it.
@GJM: didn’t you do some shooting with “G2 “ loads in the last year or so? Seems like I recall some .40 loads from them…

Edit to add: the projectiles are all solids, no JHP…

[CakeEater]

I’m currently using SuperVel’s 45acp+p 160gr Solid Copper Hollow Point. I shot them out of my HK 45s/USPs but not at any substantial level IE they’re too expensive to replace at this point. I’ve also been checking out a couple other vendors.

https://supervelammunition.com/45-acp-p-160-gr-schp/

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=297

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=359

https://doubletapammo.com/collection...-a-sc-hp-20rds

Edit: I didn’t see a Buffalo Bore 45 Super SCHP offering but DoubleTap had a 450 SMC.

[fatdog]

Barnes loads their 185gr Tacxpd https://www.barnesbullets.com/produc...et-type=tac-xp but I have only shot the 9mm version.