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Thread: Seeking ballistic gel testing results for .45 Auto 230 gr Bonded Golden Saber ammo

  1. #1
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    Seeking ballistic gel testing results for .45 Auto 230 gr Bonded Golden Saber ammo

    Can anyone here point me toward ballistic gel testing results for Remington's 230gr Bonded Golden Saber, preferably IWBA 4-layer denim testing in 10% calibrated organic gel, and preferably conducted with ammo produced since Federal bought the Remington ammo business?

    I am seeking this because at least one of my 1911s is unreliable with Speer Gold Dot 230 (53966) and I have seen Ken Hackathorn recommend the 230 gr GS for such guns. The overall length and ogive shape of the 230 GS, according to him, more closely replicate the GI ball than other, generally much shorter, JHP loads such as 53966. I am aware that the 230 Bonded GS is not on DocGKR's approved list.

  2. #2
    Does he have a current list? Pre and post Vista RP might differ. I know that back when Hydrashok was hot, I saw three clearly different versions and heard of a couple more.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by oldtexan View Post
    Can anyone here point me toward ballistic gel testing results for Remington's 230gr Bonded Golden Saber, preferably IWBA 4-layer denim testing in 10% calibrated organic gel, and preferably conducted with ammo produced since Federal bought the Remington ammo business?

    I am seeking this because at least one of my 1911s is unreliable with Speer Gold Dot 230 (53966) and I have seen Ken Hackathorn recommend the 230 gr GS for such guns. The overall length and ogive shape of the 230 GS, according to him, more closely replicate the GI ball than other, generally much shorter, JHP loads such as 53966. I am aware that the 230 Bonded GS is not on DocGKR's approved list.
    Why not go with either 185 Bonded or the 185+P unbonded Golden Saber and know that they will expand? Other 185 JHPs could also be tried.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    Why not go with either 185 Bonded or the 185+P unbonded Golden Saber and know that they will expand? Other 185 JHPs could also be tried.
    Well.... here is something.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIbMGuSlLz8

  5. #5
    Yeah, not expanding in clear ballistics is one thing

    Not expanding after hitting MDF shots is....troubling

    I also found a very old vid small expansion through homemade deep into phone book

    Hence, suggesting either of the 185 loads, same bullet profile I believe for feeding, but would have more belief in full expansion from either Golden Saber load, and Critical Defense could also be tried...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    Why not go with either 185 Bonded or the 185+P unbonded Golden Saber and know that they will expand? Other 185 JHPs could also be tried.
    Thanks.

    Are you saying that the 185 Bonded and/or 185 +P unbonded GS will both expand reliably? Could you point me to tests that show that? Do they penetrate adequately (12-18") in 10% calibrated gel? Are their overall length and ogive shape the same as 230gr ball?

    Also, all other things being equal, I prefer a 230gr (as opposed to 185) std pressure load for carry because of the greater ease of finding reasonably priced decent-quality factory 230gr std pressure training/practice loads that shoot to the same point of impact as the carry load.

  7. #7
    185s expand in general even cheaper loads

    185+p Golden Saber (EDIT may want standard pressure instead see below) will expand even in clear ballistics even in shorter barrels ie Lucky Gunner Labs, Ammo2Go etc etc.

    Unbonded gives greater expansion but can have jacket separation.... will that likely matter? I would not be concerned unless your job is in and around vehicles all day

    Then go with bonded if that is the case

    Plenty of tests different mediums search Youtube

    Go buy a box of each and check POI and function..

    You'd likely be good to go

    You didn't say your barrel length?

    If shorter than 4.25" Commander length 185s might be better choice anyways if won't feed Gold Dots or HST reliably

    I'd feel confident with 185 Golden Sabers or 185 Bonded if Bonded made you feel better for whatever reason or you had an around vehicle job.

    185 Critical Defense can also be tried as mentioned. or 185s with either Sierra bullet as well loaded by anyone including cheap Sierra boxes.

    I'd just buy some 185 GS try that for function and POI, if you want to grab some Sierra (can be found cheap but does expand) & Critical Defense as well go ahead (rounded helps in some 1911s, plug hangs up in other 1911s I believe), or if you want to try 210 gr Punch see if those feed first again go ahead...depends how much $ you want to spend function and POI testing.


    EDIT-back tracking on the +P recommendation if you absolutely positively need FBI 12" Organic...too much expansion not enough penetration perhaps
    Just go standard pressure 185 if such criteria is uber important.

    All other 185s ever tested pretty much other than Silvertip will do fine, and for me even that would be ok outside of an LE or around vehicles all day context. Some are fine with 10.5" Penetration and huge expansion, others want 12" ORGANIC minimum Bare or Heavy Clothing.

    Also, overall in OG 8 events data on 185 Federal is out there
    Last edited by Ghost Dog; 03-16-2024 at 02:20 PM.

  8. #8
    After reviewing more 3 Letter Bare/Heavy Clothing data
    From at least 4.25" or better from the 5" often tested
    230 Golden Saber (Not Bonded)
    or 230 Hydrashoks
    Will preform fine according to their old tests. There were always reports of Hydrashoks failing to expand real world heavy clothing and I myself have been interested to hear from those on here about that.

    What load was LAPD, SIS, and LA County Sheriffs using back in the day?

    Without some good data on modern stuff I wouldn't do the Bonded 230.

    Below 4.25" outside of HSTs that have a low expansion threshold
    185's will expand more reliably.
    So find one that feeds reliably

    Can I double doubly back track on 185+p...data I saw was perhaps regular cup n core Remington jhp given the data and not Golden Saber. 185+p GS is probably just fine I wouldn't sweat it. Whatever the pressure the 185 GS impact velocity 1000-1040 ish given whatever barrel length and distance looks good to go.

    What 185+p Was DEVGRU/Seal Team 6 Carrying in MK24/HK45c's during Bin Laden Raid Era?

    Which unit successfully made some pistol hits approximately 100 yards in the sandbox with 185's that drop less at that distance?
    Last edited by Ghost Dog; 03-16-2024 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #9

    45 gsb

    I just looked over the Bureau test results for GS 230 grain bonded. Performs very well, no deficiencies. I would carry without reservation. Test barrel was 5”.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fsumach View Post
    I just looked over the Bureau test results for GS 230 grain bonded. Performs very well, no deficiencies. I would carry without reservation. Test barrel was 5”.
    Fsumach, thanks much. When were those tests done?

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