Is it logical that I would shoot the Glock 21SF better than the Glock 19?
I have smaller hands, but this seems to be true.
Is it logical that I would shoot the Glock 21SF better than the Glock 19?
I have smaller hands, but this seems to be true.
An idea:
For someone with a glock that appears to mechanically shoot left, try shooting with a left handed grip and see if it still hits on point to isolate trigger finger influence as a factor.
I've tried it with my 34 and as far as I can tell it hits right on suggesting that it is not just the way the right hand interacts with it. Admittedly this was a while ago and I'm not the best shot lefty so someone else out there may be able to get better data
This is a great thread.
I've been carrying a Gen2 G17 on duty for 19 years now. In the early days, I struggled with left leaning groups. I quickly added a Hogue rubber grip sleeve. The tacky rubber and finger grooves keep my hand firmly in the same place shot after shot. The issue cleared up. It never really clicked as to why until reading this thread.
Fast forward to last week. I just picked up a Sig P320 after the glowing reviews on this forum. I shot it, and was shooting to the left, consistently. Following the advice on this forum, I tried shooting it left handed, and the groups were centered. Then I cranked up my fore and aft pressure on the stock medium grip, and the strong hand groups moved closer to center. I have large hands, and I think the issue is the medium grip. I definitely need a large grip. I also think the lack of grippiness is a factor; the stock grip could use stippling or a hogue grip sleeve.
I am a right hand shooter and have a slight right deflection on the rear sight of most of my Glock 9mm pistols. I commonly need a slight right deflection on all my handguns, regardless of type, and have for years. I have always attributed it to my eyes and how I see iron sights. When I shoot groups on the head of an IPSC target at 25 yards, left hand only with a Glock, I get 3 inch +/- groups, perfectly centered. So, no difference in POI right and left hand only.Originally Posted by Jesting Devil
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
You guys got me curious, so I pulled out my digital calipers and measured the rear sight placement on my Glocks (all wearing Dawson Chargers). My usual installation procedure is to eyeball the rear sight to center, take my sight pusher to the range, shoot at 7 yards, adjust, then shoot at 25 yards (standing freestyle, 10 shot groups), adjust, and repeat. So as they sit right now, and BTW I'm a left handed shooter... Gen 4 34: dead center. Gen 4 17: 0.009" left of center. Gen 3 30: 0.014" left of center. Next time I install sights I'll set the initial position with the aid of calipers and go from there; I'll be picking up a few more Glocks in the coming months so it'll be interesting to see what a larger sample size indicates. I should also start doing my final check at 50 yards, been a while since I've shot that distance with a handgun.
I'll be the first to admit Im not the greatest pistol shooter in the world...
That being said I started off with XDs and XDMs. I shot those pistols very well and rarely experienced the "low left" issue as a righty. Eventually the more I learned about polymer handguns I migrated to Glocks even though I didnt shoot them as well right off the bat. I have found that it takes ALOT more concentration on grip and trigger control to not shoot low left with Glocks than it ever did with XDs. That being said I feel that the Glock comes into its own on quick follow up shots due to its grip angle differences. I have slightly largely than average hands and use the large beaver tail backstrap on my Gen 4 G19. It is frustrating but I feel determined to try to fix it without switching to another gun platform because I really do like Glocks.
I think I've figured it out. The glocks slide is lighter than most and it's recoil is "sharper" and your mind subconsciously try's to counter act it by anticipating and pushing low left.
Another data point...
Just put new sights on my G19, and sighted in this evening (right handed). Digital caliper measurements indicated it was 0.006 to the right. I'm using a piece of ground flat steel held against the side of the slide, and measuring from the outside of the slide to the inside of the sight notch, both left and right, then taking the difference and dividing by 2 to get the offset from center. The group at 15 yards was inside a 3" ring, but offset to the right around 3/8". In order to justify buying a sight pusher, I drifted it 0.002 ;-) So it's set 0.004 to the right now.
Side note: Before going to the range I tried bore sighting with a laser-ammo cartridge. The laser tested like real ammo, shooting a small fraction of an inch right. However, I had to take the extractor out to get precise results because it pushed the tail end of the laser-ammo cartridge to the side. I could tell that the laser was manufactured true to the outside diameter of the cartridge because no matter how I rotated it in the bore, the results were the same.
I have just finished assisting our agency firearm instructors in transitioning over 400 officers from a Glock 22/23/27 to a Glock 17/19/26. I have seen more and more shooters who range in law enforcement experience from less than 1 year to over 25 years shoot low or low left. We ran slow fire bulls with each group of shooters, diagnosed what we observed them doing wrong. By far we have numerous shooters that were shooting left consistently. The number one problem we find is that the trigger finger is laying on the frame of the gun below the ejection port and imposing lateral movement as the shot breaks, during slow fire this is very easily repeated. during timed rapid fire this isn't as easy, hence the reason for skewed results when closer in shooting faster. If you can keep you finger off of the frame and only contact the actual trigger not the frame in the top of the trigger guard and not the bottom of the trigger guard, we see a dramatic improvement in the officers shooting POA/POI. Shooting a gun with a "-" or aftermarket trigger kits resulted in average of a 10 point increase in qualification scores for the few shooters that we tested that theory on. I am a left handed shooter, however I can shoot right handed and was able to shoot every weapon asked to check in the black at 25 yards on a bull both left and right handed... we did however have another issue that is perplexing us and that is that we had approximately 15 guns (all 17's cept 1 34) shooting 6"-8" high confirmed by numerous instructors. We have tried different barrels with no noticeable shift, next we plan to try the locking blocks.
Thats interesting because that's exactly what I do with my trigger finger! If you're staring down the muzzle my second knuckle will be at a 45 degree angle, with the top of the knuckle touching the frame. Gonna have to try this next time at the range.
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