The Russians Are Coming: Lithuania's Operation Lightning Strike

[MDS]

The Russians are an enemy to all of the West.

That's a pretty broad statement. Good faith question here, just trying to follow your thinking. Who are "the Russians?" What goals do they have that preclude those of "all of the West?"

ETA: didn't see Jay's post before writing the above. I'd still like to understand the underpinnings of this adversarial perception of Russia. My own perception is that they threaten our global hegemony in their sphere of influence, and so we have an interest in reducing their sphere of influence that runs counter to their obvious interest to increase that sphere. I therefore challenge anti-Russian sentiment by challenging our desire for absolute global hegemony. But if there's another reason to hate "the Russians," I'd like to know it!

[David S.]

You're onto something here. What NATO has done is roughly akin to say the Warsaw Pact accepting Mexico as a member.

Or say, Cuba.




You and I have been listening to way too much Dan Carlin. Kumbaya, dammit.

[TGS]

That is an absolutely unwarranted and outrageous statement.

The Soviet was an enemy to all of the West. Remember those guys we allied ourselves with in WW2? Good ol' Uncle Joe, Roosevelt's BFF? The Bolsheviks were an enemy to all of The West. They ritualistically slaughtered the Tsar and his whole family, they are responsible for the secret police (CHEKA), and they instituted the artificial famine which led to the death of millions of Ukrainians. The Bolsheviks. The Soviets.

Not "the Russians".

If you've been led to believe that leaders of the Bolshevik revolution were all ethnic Russian, you need to check the ledger.

Feel better?

Before you jump the shark again, let me rephrase my statement: Russia is an enemy to the West.

That's a pretty broad statement. Good faith question here, just trying to follow your thinking. Who are "the Russians?" What goals do they have that preclude those of "all of the West?"

ETA: didn't see Jay's post before writing the above. I'd still like to understand the underpinnings of this adversarial perception of Russia. My own perception is that they threaten our global hegemony in their sphere of influence, and so we have an interest in reducing their sphere of influence that runs counter to their obvious interest to increase that sphere. I therefore challenge anti-Russian sentiment by challenging our desire for absolute global hegemony. But if there's another reason to hate "the Russians," I'd like to know it!

Here's some quick articles. I bet there's some good material on Foreign Policy....though you probably won't agree with it, given the nature of the website involves the US interacting with other nations. Also, retired Adm. James Stavridis has been pretty vocal on Russia's threat, and would be a good source to look up for my point of view.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorentho...erica-in-2015/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/politi...t-alarm-norad/

http://www.economist.com/news/briefi...-confrontation

http://www.economist.com/news/leader...eatand-counter

[Malamute]

The Soviet was an enemy to all of the West....

Not "the Russians".

At this point, I dont think we can entirely separate the current Russian gov/leadership from Soviet ideas. I dont think all "Russians" universally believe or follow his ideology or hate the west, but Putins mindset is more Soviet than constructive or friendly towards the west. They talk openly on Russian TV and radio about nuking the US into radioactive dust, nuking Yellowstone as an "answer" to the problem of the US. They get open applause when such things are brought up. Its by no means a "just leave us alone" ideology.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-tensi...ber-1428249620

[MDS]

I bet there's some good material on Foreign Policy....though you probably won't agree with it, given the nature of the website involves the US interacting with other nations.

First, let me remind everyone to keep it civil. Let's refrain from discussing each other, stay focused on the ideas. In that spirit, I won't respond to the absurd implication that I'm against any interactions with foreign nations.

Now, I'm actually an avid reader of FP, and I agree with about half of their opinions and analysis. Their Russian coverage is pretty typical of other open sources I've perused, in that there's this unquestioned, foundational assumption that Russia and the US are natural adversaries. I haven't seen a convincing analysis that shows our differences aren't artificial and fairly superficial. Doesn't mean the bad blood doesn't exist, just that our critical interests aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'll take a look at these articles and report back. Right now I've got to get more model rocket stuff with the boys.

[TGS]

First, let me remind everyone to keep it civil. Let's refrain from discussing each other, stay focused on the ideas. In that spirit, I won't respond to the absurd implication that I'm against any interactions with foreign nations.

Now, I'm actually an avid reader of FP, and I agree with about half of their opinions and analysis. Their Russian coverage is pretty typical of other open sources I've perused, in that there's this unquestioned, foundational assumption that Russia and the US are natural adversaries. I haven't seen a convincing analysis that shows our differences aren't artificial and fairly superficial. Doesn't mean the bad blood doesn't exist, just that our critical interests aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'll take a look at these articles and report back. Right now I've got to get more model rocket stuff with the boys.

Oh, we absolutely have overlapping interests which we could try and exploit to build a better relationship, such as Islamic terrorists, or open ocean piracy.

However, it's hard to do so when Russia goes invading other countries, and along with everyone in the world except such freedom loving nations China, Iran, and North Korea we agree to participate in economic sanctions against them..along with margianlizing their oil industry....which really hurts their economy, and causes them to use rhetoric about how everything is US aggression in the first place.

Not to mention their active cyber warfare against the US, and any prior Soviet country that attempts to align itself closer with the west to improve their lives....self determination does not jive well with Russia.

[LittleLebowski]

Not to mention their active cyber warfare against the US, and any prior Soviet country that attempts to align itself closer with the west to improve their lives....self determination does not jive well with Russia.

Do you know that we are actively conducting "cyber warfare" against everyone? I mean, what do you think we are doing against Russia and China if we hacked Angela Merkel's cellphone? Cyber "warfare" is actually just modern day espionage. It's what we do. It's what every powerful country does. You might as well rail against the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service for spying upon us and then of course, someone will point out that the CIA is doing the same. This is the 21st century.

[TGS]

Do you know that we are actively conducting "cyber warfare" against everyone? I mean, what do you think we are doing against Russia and China if we hacked Angela Merkel's cellphone? Cyber "warfare" is actually just modern day espionage. It's what we do. It's what every powerful country does. You might as well rail against the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service for spying upon us and then of course, someone will point out that the CIA is doing the same. This is the 21st century.

Again, LL, another bad comparison.

I'm not aware of us conducting any unprovoked major bot net attacks on an entire country's financial system, which is just another example of Russia's aggression towards a former satellite moving towards western values.

[LittleLebowski]

Again, LL, another bad comparison.

I'm not aware of us conducting any unprovoked major bot net attacks on an entire country's financial system, which is just another example of Russia's aggression towards a former satellite moving towards western values.

You didn't say "bot net attack" hence me pointing out that we are doing the exact same thing to the Russians (cyber warfare) you rightly say the Russians are doing to us. However, are you unequivocally saying that the Russian gov't used bot net attacks against our "entire financial system?" Not say, Russian crime syndicates or just Russian hacker cabals/individuals?

[TGS]

You didn't say "bot net attack" hence me pointing out that we are doing the exact same thing to the Russians (cyber warfare) you rightly say the Russians are doing to us. However, are you unequivocally saying that the Russian gov't used bot net attacks against our "entire financial system?" Not say, Russian crime syndicates or just Russian hacker cabals/individuals?

Back up for a second.

1) Bot net attacks are a form of cyber warfare. I used the correct terminology, whether you want to omit certain actions from its bredth or not.

2) I never said our financial system. I actually said it was against a former Soviet satellite.

3) I think it's pretty naive to assume that the Russian government wasn't behind such an action. If you want proof, then I'm going to disappoint you because there isn't any, and never will be. You know, that whole black ops/covert/espionage thing.....