The Russians Are Coming: Lithuania's Operation Lightning Strike

[LittleLebowski]

Voodoo_Man should also chime in here.

[YVK]

I guess both would be awesome! I was orginally just asking for your personal opinion on Russia's aggression, and I guess if you could share your opinion on whether they present any danger (direct or indirect) to the US.

I don't know....I just want to pick your brain.

The annexation of Crimea was a hugely popular move, somewhat dampened by the economic burden of it but then refueled by the 70th anniversary. We can talk about legalities of it and the international outcry and what have you but if somebody spent any time on the ground there in years preceding the events - (any time frame will do, from the commie times to nowadays), it would be crystal clear why. I have despised Putin and everything he stands for for about a decade now, but even I cannot mount a convincing argument against it, especially being a US citizen (again, a reference to the multiple military actions my country has taken in recent years to protect its interests). Because of that background, the Western sanctions have led to the unintended consequences of giving Putin some traction in the area of moral support by the population. This is unfortunate because he was losing some of it.


The eastern Ukrainian conflict is more complicated. It has been condemned by most thinking Russians but the propaganda machine is keeping general attitudes at bay. Some of Ukrainians being a despicable assholes themselves is easily exploited by the mass media. It is pretty depressing, actually.

Got to run, hopefully, this gives an idea.

[MDS]

Awesome, thanks for the insight, YVK

[Wondering Beard]

Yep, I understand. I just disagree, is all. I think we and the Russians are more alike - that the Russians are less "must grab pie while getting is good," and Americans are more so - than what you describe.

I could easily be wrong about the degree to which Russia (by which I mean the Russian state) is "must grab pie while getting is good" and without a doubt you have plenty of folks in the American gov't who think "must grab pie while getting is good." Still culturally, the Russians (people and folks who work in gov't) and the Americans (people and gov't workers) come to their views and solutions from a very different set of assumptions based on a very different history. That really matters when we're trying to decide what to do.

Russia couldn't have taken over back then, and they certainly can't expand forever now. So why are we so hellbent on war?

Well, I certainly am not and I am sure that approaches other than war can and should be used succesfully. But what has developed in East Ukraine has put plenty of people on edge, making things harder.

[Wondering Beard]

There are American military bases set all over the world. No other country has the same rapid force deployment capabilities thanks to our carriers. The US has been involved in two wars lately thousands miles away from the shores, one of them in an oil rich country, and neither of them solved any particular problem. This is what the outside world sees, and that's what everyone, including but not limited to Russians people, brings into the conversation about "cohabitation and not wanting a piece of pie". When I talk about Crimea, they talk about Guantanamo. Etc.

That's true. We got caught in these self fulfilling prophecies when we didn't have to.

As far as Russian people having an expansionist ideas, trust me, they don't give a shit.

I didn't think they did but rather that historically and culturally, there is always a worry to some group or country is going to come and take from them which influences the Russian state (not the population) to want to set its influence and power as far away from its actual borders as possible. Am I wrong in thinking that?

[YVK]

Historically the Russians, both the ruling class and the population, have been brought up in the delusion of a grandeur and such ideas are painful to die off. Many still feed off of that but the illusion is really hard to maintain despite $52 bln Olympics and such. The government probably realizes it the best. Its modus operandi of relationships with the neighbors have been based on energy prices and customs regulations manipulations for years; they can't possibly be that naive as to why nobody respects them. The action in Ukraine is both a temper tantrum and attention diversion, imo. They are afraid to admit economic incompetence, political living in the past, and never-ending and staggering corruption and they need an enemy to get the masses unified. Ukraine and the West are convenient.

Normal folks don't particularly care what territories Moscow rules and only few stupid ones care about buffer zones in the era of nukes. Some get annoyed with the fact that they live in an irrelevant country after being fed the notion of a superpower then and now, others (and most of them) just want to live well.

[Jay Cunningham]

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/49712


Putin speech

[PPGMD]

Well it looks like the Russians might not be satisfied with the Sudetenland.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia...200136322.html

Russia is going to review whether or not it was legal for the Soviet Union to recognize the Baltic states as independent nearly 25 years ago, according to a report by Interfax.

A "source familiar with the situation" told Interfax on Tuesday that the Russian Prosecutor General's office began checking the legality of the recognition of the independence of the Baltics.

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were Soviet republics until the dissolution of the USSR back in 1991.

[Drang]

Well it looks like the Russians might not be satisfied with the Sudetenland.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia...200136322.html

I am shocked, SHOCKED!!!