"Dont Become A Cop"

[Kyle Reese]

What he said about agencies not hiring vets until they've been home for 3 years is balderdash.


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[EM_]

Most of my issue with this dingbat speaking on a subject I have lived comes from the ability to smell bullshit. When you work in the hard places long enough you can quickly tell if a guy has real experience, or resume experience. Has he done time and earned his bones or did he go to schools and be able to claim "cop" and "experience" on paper to check a box. I'm sure nyeti worked with many just like this, and I damn sure know I have. I worked more calls in a night than he did in months, guaranteed. I think very highly of small town and rural police, and know many that are superb policeman and could work anywhere they chose to. But it really is a different world, and JY is acting like he has the street cred to prove it. Maybe he's a nice fellow in real life, I dunno, and I'll even credit he might be a damn fine teacher.

I think the ability to sniff this stuff out is how I've read posts by nyeti online since, well..forever (T-F?!?!?!), and they always just "clicked," as having the ring of BTDT, at least in my world working in a hyper-violent city. Never have to meet the nyeti in the real world to know it, and maybe never will, but I would vouch for him as 'stand-up' which means a hell of a lot in my world. It's the reason that I really only hang out at this forum and TPI, and I consider myself a lurker and a learner.

My $0.02 on the matter is that while maybe I'd agree with some of what JY says, I don't believe he's earned the bones to say it.

Back to lurking...

[23JAZ]

I am not a Yeager fan...at all. However, he states some truth in this particular video. I have been investigated through IA and criminally (in-custody death & OIS) politically maligned, written tickets/arrested the wrong folks (including LEO's)...and been ostracized for it, been a political pawn because I wrote the Chiefs buddy a ticket. I could go on and on. I survived thus far...23 years in retirement at this point. There are going to be landmines. You just have to be smart enough to avoid them. Not saying you have to kiss an ass to do it either. I have paid the price for not being a management tool and I can go home and sleep fairly well knowing that. A few years ago nyeti posted what I have in my sig line over on LF. It rings truer everyday I get closer to retirement. I have seen guys be up an admin persons ass so far they could taste their lunch. I have seen those same dudes fall out of favor and out of law enforcement to go work security at Target. I will never hold an upper level management position. I'm good with that. My guys know where I stand and they appreciate it. That's good enough for me.

As far as warriors not getting jobs, he's wrong. Dead nuts wrong. And there are 'warriors' on the street that have never seen a combat zone. Firearms instructors here don't just rubber stamp anyone...maybe in TN(?). The physical standards we are mandated to pass in BLET are the same for male/female. The last 2 true rookies we hired were both terminated within a year. We just hired 3 more so we will see if they shake out but if they don't their ass will be gone too.

There is a lot more to it than what this guy postulates. When I was in BLET one of our instructors stated that law enforcement is on a pendulum. It swings back and forth over time and if we stayed in it long enough we would see it both ways. His statement rings true now because when I started it was fun...now, not so much.

Law enforcement is a thankless job. It can be tough. It can also be great. Depends on what you are willing to put in to it.

I can't stand that douche bag! As far as I'm concerned he is right up there with Cory and Erica. I don't give a shit what his creds are, his cocky, I'm better than you "internet fags" bullshit makes whatever good he could do moot. IMHO of course.

[John Hearne]

I don't have time for a long response but let me chime in quickly.

I don't have any problems believing what Yeager says in regards to small town politics and police work. I've spent the vast majority of my career around rural agencies - from working as a dispatcher for a very small Sheriff's Office before I was 21 to working with a bunch of small city and county agencies in the Deep South. Those jobs are uber political and if you don't think you'll get fired for citing or arresting the wrong person, you are wrong. 99% of the time, the officer/deputy drops the charges and all is forgiven. In that remaining 1%, where the "wrong" person complains, the officer gets gone. They may be fired or they can just make it incredibly difficult to get by. I've known Yeager for a long time now and I can very easily see him not playing politics and refusing to dismiss charges. Don't confuse the Youtube personality Yeager with the guy he was 10+ years ago.

People who are good cops but fired because they wrote/arrested the wrong person can get picked up easily, until they write/arrest the wrong person in the new jurisdiction. Folks in small rural departments have even been fired for being "rude" to the wrong people. One of the few perks of my job is that I can cite/arrest most anyone and the charge can't be pulled. This does not stop others from calling on behalf of the person I charged - why, because it's highly political and they are obligated to ask.

Ditto with passing those who can't shoot. If you don't think this happens, you are mistaken. Hell, there's at least one "felony waiver" in every academy class at a nearby large agency I know.

[olstyn]

Nothing wrong with being a cop. The key is to be a cop in a place that wants the policing you want to do. I was very picky. Some don't have the background to be picky and match the agency to your goals. That is a lot of the issue.

Oh yea.....I only made it to 1.28, so I may not have the whole grasp of what his "expert opinion" is.

I never said there was anything wrong with being a cop (I happen to think that those who do it right, especially in the environment that exists today, are amazing people), and I certainly didn't mean to imply a commonality of experience or attitude between you and Yeager. I just meant that in the specific video posted, the points he was making, once you filter through his blustery Yeager-ness, sounded like a less well-spoken echo of some things you've said in the past.

Thank you again for sharing your experience with everyone here. At bare minimum, the perspective of someone who has been there and done that is interesting to learn from, and I think reading what you write benefits us all.

[Beat Trash]

The difference is that nyeti was actually a cop for almost 20 years in an environment that Yeager is basing on movies (and wanted to do 30, but I got hurt and was forced out kicking and screaming...not fired). Personally, I don't think Yeager would have made probation at a large squared away agency for him to even comment. He was a "Chief" of a one man department in a town of less than 600 people. We often worked party calls with more people. The hard part is figuring out how to function as a cop. It is not about shooting, what holster you are using, or anything most folks on these forums relate to. It is not having a good cry when a crack whore puts her baby in a microwave. It is trying to figure out how child protective services can give a baby back to heroin addicted parents living in a car with needles everywhere and the baby is drinking milk from a bottle so rotten it looks like cottage cheese. Watching mans inhumanity towards man daily. Dealing with some of the sickest people you could imagine regularly. You need to learn to deal,with the internal backstabbing that goes on, not watching movies about it. The back stabbing goes on because unlike any other business there are no stratus's that are present elsewhere. Cops are pretty much the same educationally, morally, backgrounds, etc. The only way to climb is over the backs of folks just like you. Some are cut out for being climbers,some the back, and some (like me) who just dropped out of the process and found happiness on the street and not in the station. A lot of this is simply about being a professional. That is the problem, many in LE are not. There is a massive shortage of leadership and only supervision and micro-management. There is a massive lack of people driven by working to be a nobel profession and treating it like a profession rather than a job.
Here is the truth. A ton of people in cop work shouldn't be. A ton of people running police departments shouldn't be. A vast majority of the politicians who are the communities elected leaders who are tasked with providing police services have no business in that endeavor. Being a cop is an awesome thing. This is especially true if you can figure out how to do it right. As Pat Rogers says "you may love the job, but the job does not love you". That is simply an understanding that takes time to work through. I was lucky that Pete Ambriz (RIP stud), my second FTO got that through my skull early so it wasn't a surprise and I was aware of it.

Nothing wrong with being a cop. The key is to be a cop in a place that wants the policing you want to do. I was very picky. Some don't have the background to be picky and match the agency to your goals. That is a lot of the issue.

Oh yea.....I only made it to 1.28, so I may not have the whole grasp of what his "expert opinion" is.

Well said.

I can not speak of life as a LEO in a rural environment. I can speak of being an inter-city LEO for the last 23 years. I have seen major changes in how it is done. At least in my area. By and large, I thing Police Officers have bitched and complained about changes for generations. I am convinced that there was a time when the last police horse was shot and the new automobiles were introduced that old veteran officers with large mustaches bitched about having to trade in their horse for this new fangled automobile! As a whole, we don't deal well with change...

I can remember talking to a 35 year veteran of my agency when I was in the testing process to be hired. He told me then of the many changes in policing that had occurred since he came on the job and how screwed up things had become, and that I would be a fool to get into policing at that time. I'm sure someone gave him the same lecture 35 years prior to his giving me mine.

Policing involves many types of individuals within an agency. Law Enforcement Officers, Administrators, would be politicians and civil service workers who happen to wear a badge.

It is up to the individual to determine what kind of individual they wish to become once they get on the job. I have spent my entire career as either a Beat Officer, or as a Relief Sergeant who has had the privilege and responsibility to lead good men and women. Many of the more politically correct career path types tend to look down upon the first responding Beat Officer, calling them derogatory names such as, "Beat Trash".

Cowards often mock what they lack the courage to do...

Being an effective Police Officer will take it's toll over time. As a profession, we are just now addressing the concept that many officers will suffer to some extent from PTSD in time. Some from a singular event. Some from decades of smaller events stuffed into a box and buried away. Until the box becomes too full. This can be managed, so long as it is acknowledged and addressed.

If anyone were to ask me if they should consider becoming a Police Officer, I would tell them that it is something they should think through first. These are challenging times for our profession. But I would also tell anyone asking my advice that first and foremost, it is a profession. Treat it as such. If you choose to undertake it, do so with the upmost of professionalism. And try to go into it with your eyes open. Because this isn't a movie, it's very much real life.

As for Yeager's comments, I tried to watch it and listen to what he had to say. But he came across as a kid who is pouting. I tried to listen as I read Nyeti's comments but I couldn't listen to Yeager any more. The only thing I could think of as he talked was, "Shush, the grownups are talking!"

I turned the video off. Life's too short to listen any further...

[Dagga Boy]

My favorite thing to do these days is hanging out with rural cops here in Texas. I can easily pick the studs out of these guys as I can with metro guys. The studs of these rural agencies are some tough as nails bad asses. They tend to be good at communicating with their "clients" in their areas as I was at working my clients in ghetto apartments and barrios. It's called being a good cop-period. I have also seen the same crap bags in those places as people we had on blue welfare in mine. Like I said, being a cop is tough and the main thing is being able to adapt quickly and have exceptional situational awareness. Does policing now suck in many places...yes. Situational awareness would dictate that doing pro-active policing in low income urban areas is not smart. The current situation is such that there is a time for doing reactionary non-proactive cop work. If a cop is not versatile enough to be able to work both pro-actively and reactively, then that is their own short coming. Did I like doing reactive policing. Nope. Guess what, sometime you don't get to do what you want at work. Did I take pride in the quality of my work product at writing a great police report in documenting past crimes, of course. Would I have preferred to have caught "Ray Ray" as an ex-felon with a gun before he shot K-Dog at the section 8 apartment complex......sure. Could I write a report that would be presented to the DA as an airtight case to put RayRay in prison (again) without any issues....of course and I prided myself in that. Unfortunately, this is not the time to work like that. Now, you respond and write a professional police report to document that RayRay (or somebody) shot K-Dog and send it through the system and let the justice system do whatever it wants with it as the community wishes. If you can't do that as a cop with zero emotion and a cold black heart, you should be in a different line of work. If a cop cannot figure out that they are a mirror of the community, again.....poor situational awareness.
When the community is only concerned about LEO use of force against minorities.....then don't do proactive policing in those areas. Those areas are just fine right now with minorities killing minorities as long as law enforcement isn't involved. Great, write good reports. If the community doesn't care about "cultural crimes" like petty theft and drug use and sales......neither should you. When the community tires of being listed in reports in the "victim" box, they'll let the political powers know and then you can do proactive work. Again,situational awareness, and it is not about making you happy.
My big plan was to do 20 years at my place and my last ten in a small agency in a mountain resort community. Went on lots of ride alongs and spent a good amount of time with their mid level supervisors. The guy I rode with most of the time did the same thing as my plan so he had great insight. He emphasized being adaptable to the community. One of their guys was a perfect example of how to get in trouble as a rural cop and having crap for situational awareness. Guy had been a LAPD motor cop. Came to this community and spent all day writing everyone tickets. Locals, tourists, no one got a break or was immune. This is a smallish community....the guy cannot eat at a single restaurant in town (and they have a ton of great eateries). He generated tons of complaints from the tourists who fuel the town's economy. Eventually,the Chief of Police called him into the office and took his ticket book away and I think he was eventually sent packing. He was a mirror of the community......in Los Angeles, but not where he was. This is a place where they handle annoying Bear calls like we handled drunks. Hell, they had named problem Bears that were just like the town drunks that got arrested several times a month. The mirror of that community is really a simple "keep the peace" type place. Now I am sure the former LAPD motor is telling everyone how he got screwed by politics, and how he was out working everyone who was jealous of how productive he was, blah, blah, blah.....

So, my take is "don't become a cop" if you are not cut out for it.....and it is more complicated than folks think. I would make the SF analogy. If someone goes into SF with the idea of they just want to jump out of planes and helicopters and kill everything, then they will fail when the mission is a humanitarian mission, a training mission with local troops, or a protective assignment in a sensitive area or a mission where language skills or medical skills are more important than shooting skills. Doesn't' make a guy any less a Green Beret if they are great at giving an inoculation shot instead of a head shot......if he can do both and more importantly, knows when to deliver each, it makes him a great Green Beret. Great cops can do a lot of things well, and they know how and when to apply the right skillsets.

[GardoneVT]

My favorite thing to do these days is hanging out with rural cops here in Texas. I can easily pick the studs out of these guys as I can with metro guys. The studs of these rural agencies are some tough as nails bad asses. They tend to be good at communicating with their "clients" in their areas as I was at working my clients in ghetto apartments and barrios. It's called being a good cop-period. I have also seen the same crap bags in those places as people we had on blue welfare in mine. Like I said, being a cop is tough and the main thing is being able to adapt quickly and have exceptional situational awareness. Does policing now suck in many places...yes. Situational awareness would dictate that doing pro-active policing in low income urban areas is not smart. The current situation is such that there is a time for doing reactionary non-proactive cop work. If a cop is not versatile enough to be able to work both pro-actively and reactively, then that is their own short coming. Did I like doing reactive policing. Nope. Guess what, sometime you don't get to do what you want at work. Did I take pride in the quality of my work product at writing a great police report in documenting past crimes, of course. Would I have preferred to have caught "Ray Ray" as an ex-felon with a gun before he shot K-Dog at the section 8 apartment complex......sure. Could I write a report that would be presented to the DA as an airtight case to put RayRay in prison (again) without any issues....of course and I prided myself in that. Unfortunately, this is not the time to work like that. Now, you respond and write a professional police report to document that RayRay (or somebody) shot K-Dog and send it through the system and let the justice system do whatever it wants with it as the community wishes. If you can't do that as a cop with zero emotion and a cold black heart, you should be in a different line of work. If a cop cannot figure out that they are a mirror of the community, again.....poor situational awareness.
When the community is only concerned about LEO use of force against minorities.....then don't do proactive policing in those areas. Those areas are just fine right now with minorities killing minorities as long as law enforcement isn't involved. Great, write good reports. If the community doesn't care about "cultural crimes" like petty theft and drug use and sales......neither should you. When the community tires of being listed in reports in the "victim" box, they'll let the political powers know and then you can do proactive work. Again,situational awareness, and it is not about making you happy.
My big plan was to do 20 years at my place and my last ten in a small agency in a mountain resort community. Went on lots of ride alongs and spent a good amount of time with their mid level supervisors. The guy I rode with most of the time did the same thing as my plan so he had great insight. He emphasized being adaptable to the community. One of their guys was a perfect example of how to get in trouble as a rural cop and having crap for situational awareness. Guy had been a LAPD motor cop. Came to this community and spent all day writing everyone tickets. Locals, tourists, no one got a break or was immune. This is a smallish community....the guy cannot eat at a single restaurant in town (and they have a ton of great eateries). He generated tons of complaints from the tourists who fuel the town's economy. Eventually,the Chief of Police called him into the office and took his ticket book away and I think he was eventually sent packing. He was a mirror of the community......in Los Angeles, but not where he was. This is a place where they handle annoying Bear calls like we handled drunks. Hell, they had named problem Bears that were just like the town drunks that got arrested several times a month. The mirror of that community is really a simple "keep the peace" type place. Now I am sure the former LAPD motor is telling everyone how he got screwed by politics, and how he was out working everyone who was jealous of how productive he was, blah, blah, blah.....

So, my take is "don't become a cop" if you are not cut out for it.....and it is more complicated than folks think. I would make the SF analogy. If someone goes into SF with the idea of they just want to jump out of planes and helicopters and kill everything, then they will fail when the mission is a humanitarian mission, a training mission with local troops, or a protective assignment in a sensitive area or a mission where language skills or medical skills are more important than shooting skills. Doesn't' make a guy any less a Green Beret if they are great at giving an inoculation shot instead of a head shot......if he can do both and more importantly, knows when to deliver each, it makes him a great Green Beret.

If knowledge is power, then the quoted post is one of these:

[DMF13]

As far as warriors not getting jobs, he's wrong. Dead nuts wrong.

Curiosity got the better of me, and I watched it. You are correct, and he is wrong. I don't know of any agency around me that is trying to avoid combat vets. My agency certainly doesn't, and we have several people with us, and it's true at other agencies, that not only are combat vets, but stayed in the Guard/Reserve, and frequently have gone off to combat in over the more than a decade I've been in LE. None of them were "shunned" for the combat experience prior to getting hired, or for deployments they did taking military leave while on the job.

[TGS]

Curiosity got the better of me, and I watched it. You are correct, and he is wrong. I don't know of any agency around me that is trying to avoid combat vets. My agency certainly doesn't, and we have several people with us, and it's true at other agencies, that not only are combat vets, but stayed in the Guard/Reserve, and frequently have gone off to combat in over the more than a decade I've been in LE. None of them were "shunned" for the combat experience prior to getting hired, or for deployments they did taking military leave while on the job.

Lots of local new hires in my area are prior mil. The NJSP alone could probably create a reserve Marine battalion....they have a reputation of liking Marines. NJ also has absolute vet preference....so that probably plays a role. At the federal level, a buddy of mine who attended FLETC in 2014 said about 1/4 of his class were prior mil....and that class was for an agency which is known for being fairly PC, risk averse, ect.

So, yeah, I think this Yeager guy put his foot in his mouth....

.......Again.