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Thread: When to stick with or ditch LEM?

  1. #1

    When to stick with or ditch LEM?

    All,

    Long time follower, first time poster.

    I have a 9mm LEM p2000sk purchased a few months ago, and I must admit the transition has been tough. For background, I carried an M9 as an infantryman in the Army, and currently carry an M&P 9 for work. I have owned, and sold, and M&P 9 and compact because I felt the ergonomics and reliability did not work for me. I currently shoot a G17 in USPSA and love it. I have tried a G26, but with pinky extensions the seam between the magazine and frame it bit me pretty good on the ring finger every shot.

    I settled on the P2000sk as a carry weapon because I fell in love with appendix carry, in large part to the knowledgeable posters on this forum. Due to the p30 write up from years ago I took the plunge on an HK v2, converted to V4 with the spring chart from HKPro. I like the added safety of thumbing a hammer on reholster, but transitioning to the LEM trigger is frankly kicking my ass.

    I've tried slow fire bullseye, and mixing in dummy rounds in my magazines, but the result is almost always high and right. I'm anticipating for sure and don't know how to cure it. Has anyone else encountered this and pushed through it? I'm about 1k rounds in and am struggling.

    I'll make an attempt to attach two photos, the first being the first 5 rounds of the day at 20 yds, and the second many shoot n see targets later. For what it's worth I don't have this issue shooting a striker fired pistol, and my M9 quake were a long time ago. At what point should I decide to stick with this platform or ditch it?

  2. #2
    First 5 rounds at 20yds


    Many rounds in at 20 yds


  3. #3
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    New Mexico
    High and right isnt usually indicative of anticipation.
    My guess is that your jerking the trigger when the LEM hits the abrupt ramp up to hammer release. I see this a lot with Glock shooters trying to work the trigger like a Glock.
    Try some slow fire without any pauses in the trigger press, do not do "slack out, press". Instead try to maintain one smooth continuous motion trigger press without a hiccup when the trigger hits the "wall".
    The LEM light initial takeup that suddendly ramps up at the end really messes with Glock shooters.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  4. #4
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    Ohio
    I came from a V3 P30, several months ago. This was verification of alignment after switching from a Dawson Tritium .170 tall x .125 wide to a FO .170 x .100 wide. The flier was my final shot and it was called. It "felt" like it went much lower. The LEM is very capable, but not everyone meshes with it. Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P at 25yds. I need to adjust left .004 on my FSName:  tmp_20150522_170733-1261208075.jpg
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Size:  27.4 KB Only you can determine how much work goes into learning it. I chose to make the switch after developing hand pain and fatigue after running the v3 for about 4 years. The LEM transition has been painless and very beneficial to my performance. But I credit the years of DA/SA for much of it.
    Taking a break from social media.

  5. #5
    Member
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    Oct 2013
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    East Greenwich, RI
    Only you can made that decision. However, I'm someone who really doesn't like the LEM. I was lucky because LSP972 (or his wife) owns every HK made. I was able to spend a couple of range sessions with a LEM and it definitely saved me some money. I come from a pretty strong DA revolver and TDA background but can't run a LEM at speed with anywhere near the results of a 226 or Glock. Slow fire is fine but the sudden wall of the LEM caused me problems at speed. As always, everyone is different and the trigger is only one of many attributes that impact personal weapon selection.

    I determined FOR ME, the LEM didn't offer me anything I needed over a TDA SIG or Glock.

  6. #6
    I feel like I have been "spoiled" by the Glock trigger and have developed bad habits as a result. With just dry fire, I can hit that wall of the break point without disturbing the sights, but when at the range it's a different story. When shooting my work M&P or my personal G17 this isn't an issue. I'm pretty sure it's a software problem, not a matter of hardware.

    JodyH, I've read through previous posts concerning LEM transition and having to move the trigger without interruption the moment the decision is made to pull it. I really try to stick to this, but with the ball and dummy drill I can see the front sight still jumping up to the right. I know I'm jerking the trigger, but I can't seem to turn it off. Perhaps my slow-fire is too slow and I'm overthinking it? Should I pick up the pace in my trigger pull?

    So far I do like the challenge of a new system, and I do like HK's reputation for accuracy and reliability. In a capacity restricted state I do like the fact that the P2000sk is made for ten round magazines (I've heard Glock 10 rounders are prone to more failure), but for those who have undergone this transition, should I invest more in time and ammunition at this stage or am I one of those who doesn't "get" the LEM?

  7. #7
    When I went to LEM P30 and HK45 I shot them better for group from the start at 25 yards than I did my GL17s/19s that I had shot 10k per year for years.
    It took me 3-4k rounds over 3 months to get my speed up to my Glock standards as measured by 7 yard headshots from the draw.
    I really like LEM/hammer gun for AIWB but there is a learning curve.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter EricM's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    Midwest
    If you prep it to the wall first, slow fire, does this still happen? If not, maybe try an increasingly smaller pause at the wall until you can pull it straight through. As I switched from DA/SA to Glock I found it helpful to think of the trigger pull as adding pressure at a constant rate all the way through, rather than the trigger moving at a constant speed all the way through. Think credit is due to Todd or someone else here on that way of visualizing it. Watched a video clip recently where Mike Pannone said he imagined a string connecting the trigger finger to the front sight, and he pulls the front sight straight back through the rear sight. Command fire ball and dummy might be useful at some point (start on target, finger on trigger but trigger fully forward, pull the trigger on the beep).

    To reduce the wall, you could try lightening the pull. Light firing pin block spring and/or lighter hammer spring. I've heard you can clip a couple coils off a reduced-power Wolff spring for a USPc to make it work in the P2000SK, never tried it though...not suggesting carrying the gun in this configuration, but maybe doing that temporarily could help overcome a mental block that's holding you back. Weird idea, but does anyone think there might be any benefit to doing a little dry fire without racking the slide? Maybe it could help get the feel of pulling all the way through with the same trigger geometry but more constant (albeit far heavier) pressure.

    Final thought, might be worth trying the other backstrap, particularly if it's movement in your grip that is throwing off the shot as opposed to in your arm/wrist. In my experience a void or hotspot there makes it easier for the grip to shift undesirably.

  9. #9
    Is slow fire bullseye at 20 yards a good metric for a small concealed carry piece? Maybe try some 10 yard and in drills, like the FAST, 10-10-10, iHack, 4567, Wilson 5x5, etc, and see how you do.

  10. #10
    Is it possible, you just need a slight left deflection of your rear sight?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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