Yeah, the posts questioning why the ATF is dealing with this were certainly nothing but tin foil.Originally Posted by TGS
ATF, for whatever reason, is the principal LE agency focusing on bikers. Maybe because of their history of running guns? Dunno. There is a lot of institutional knowledge there.I can't help but harbor some curiosity as to why it's the ATF publishing such reports and dealing with that sort of intelligence.
#RESIST
Then I'll ask the question another way, and with a broader scope - Is it more or less effective to have such a variety of different semi-independent Federal LE agencies all tasked with ostensibly the same thing?
At a glance, I'd assume that biker gangs would be an FBI sort of thing. I ask this earnestly, and mindful of the fact that being too skeptical can lead someone wrong just as surely as being too trusting. No tinfoil here.
There is some overlap amount agencies, but it is really difficult to be the master of all.
FBI is busy with bank robbery, counter espionage (KGB and China are still active), mafia/organized crime, and terror.
ATF does domestic arson, bombs (bikers love bombs), guns, counterfeit booze and tobacco, un taxed/smuggled tobacco.
HSI gets human trafficking, international arms sales, commercial fraud, dope, child porn/exportation and bulk Cash smuggling.
DEA gets dope any money laundering.
Secret Service get financial crimes, wire fraud, securities/credit fraud, counterfeiting and protection detail.
Many criminal groups cross boundaries into multiple crimes. And many agencies can overlap in statutory authority and responsibility, yet each agency has areas where they tend to specialize... And No one wants one huge uber powerful fed agency.
The separation of powers amount agencies if preferable to many.
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
Out of curiosity, how many other federal agencies have their own law enforcement (meaning armed officers)? Some that I think come to mind include the park service, BLM, the post office, the IRS, NOAA and probably many more I have forgotten.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Last time I counted there were over 90 federal agencies with armed agents.
EPA, the Dept of Education, and the Dept of Agriculture, for instance, all have SWAT teams. The FDIC has armed agents. Not complaining, just taking note.
Many of these agencies LEOs are either uniformed security forces with police powers such as the Library of Congress Police or specialized OIG ( Office of Inspector General) focusing on internal and contractor fraud involving their specific agency.
This was big news two summers ago in Alaska. Article sheds some light on this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...med-divisions/
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Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Good lord...
"The ongoing investigation conducted by the AK Environmental Crimes Task Force -- consisting of EPA, ADEC, USFWS, ADFG, BLM, Coast Guard, FBI, Alaska State Troopers, NOAA, & US Park Service -- did not result in a raid," the statement read. "The Task Force members involved in the investigation during the week of August 19, 2013, were EPA's Criminal Investigation Division & Bureau of Land Management's Office of Law Enforcement & Security, in cooperation with ADEC's Environmental Crimes Unit."
#RESIST
The problem is not having armed federal officers. Back when I was working at a cop gun and gear shop in college in the mid 80's one customer we had was an EPA agent with more threats and attempts on his life for doing his job than our DEA agents. Back in those days he was working nasty gross polluters. Stuff that I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on, this was some horrendous stuff and the offenders were simply evil people who also had no issues with killing off their problem with enforcement folks. This was Camorra like stuff in the United States rather than Naples. So I have zero issues with federal law enforcement having a means to protect themselves.
Now the difference is leadership, mission and supervision. This changes over the years and through different administrations. THIS is where elections really have consequences. The EPA and their focus under President Obama is very different than Ronald Reagan. The BATFE agents who came to my home should have been ashamed of themselves. Luckily, and I mean luckily...the two young agents didn't "hit me with a no knock warrant at 2AM" like their supervising SAC wanted them to.......on a fricking hunch. The only gun I had in that house was a single Hk45C. This is what is wrong, it is where the orders are coming from and not the individual officers. As long as the public keeps electing the folks who promoted everyone who supervised Fast & Furious, this will continue.
To stay on track with this thread, a early mentor of mine was the most famous cop adversary of the Hell's Angels in their history. A US Marshal who made the cover of POLICE magazine back in the day for his war on the HA's. One of his best enforcement tools was having investigators from the Calif bureau of automotive repair, and Department of motor vehicles. All armed agents, mostly former cops from other places,but highly effective at helping on working bikers. I am all for those guys being armed. Many folks forget that the enforcement people from regulatory agencies are often working stuff far different than what one would think the agency is doing.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
Does anyone posting here think that those with the responsibility to conduct arrests for violations of law, should do so without the equipping and training to compel the same? Heck, many of the armed pax for certain federal organizations aren't even LE, but that doesn't change the need to equip them in support of their duties.
From the article: "...with jackets that say "POLICE" emblazoned on them..." I thought that was a desired feature.
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