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Thread: Official AAR: Sean M/F2S Epic Carbine Course of Win and Bacon

  1. #11
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Virginia
    Qual:



    Box drill:



    Final exercise:

    3/15/2016

  2. #12
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Virginia
    Ms. Donna works from the kneeling:
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    The only AK in class from the standing position:
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    F2S going over the sitting position:
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    3/15/2016

  3. #13
    Thank you Tim and Jack for your helpful instruction! I appreciate all you guys letting me and my son work in for some drills.....or our attempt anyway. Thank you Jay, Ashton and anyone else involved putting this together. We had a lot of fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    Member Rich@CCC's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Youngstown, OH
    While there was a perplexing lack of bacon, the weekend was indeed one of epic win for all!

    I'd hoped to represent the Army Green better than I did but then I was just an HQ puke riding in an armored column while our Marine and SEAL instructors were(are?) in the shit daily so I don't feel so bad.

    I took a whole lot home to work with from this class. It was a case of you don't know what you don't know for me. I'm a decent marksman with a bolt gun and a bench but running a carbine like this was completely new to me. My M16A2 was firmly mounted in the crew weapons rack for most of my time in Iraq and Army weapons qual was a joke in reality.

    Now I have some info and guidance to set up and run quality drills at my club range instead of just burning ammo and re enforcing bad habits. I wish I could make Jay's advanced carbine clinic at the end of the month but I'm already obligated for the weekend.

    Great vids and pics Tim!

    Vinh DOMINATED!
    TANSTAAFL

    Managing Partner, Custom Carry Concepts, LLC

  5. #15
    Vinh is scary. I feel bad for the guy that tries to mug him.
    #RESIST

  6. #16
    Site Supporter MichaelD's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    South Jordan, Utah
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I'm glad that you guys found the class worthwhile and I'm sorry that I was unable to be there.

    The thanks for the mag carriers should be directed towards Rich@CCC. Custom Carry Concepts donated 6 of them and provided the remainder at a very substantial discount.

    Also, thanks to all the guys (Shean, Jack, Jay, Tim, Aston, etc.) who helped make this happen.

    Is it safe to assume that an annual PF training event, would be something that PF members would enjoy and attend? Perhaps next year we can do something in south/southwest/midwest part of the country. We've done PA the last two years because Jay makes it so incredibly easy (at least for me) to do so.
    The class sounds like it was awesome. If it made its way west to AZ or NM I would make a concerted effort to be there.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter
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    Dayton, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    Vinh is scary. I feel bad for the guy that tries to mug him.
    Vinh was indeed a freak. I saw his groups at distance and figured he was running some magnified optic and possibly snuck in a bi-pod. Nope, red dot and good shooting.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter
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    Oct 2012
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    CT
    I can't possibly say enough good things about Sean and Jack as instructors or adequately express my appreciation for their time, attention and unbelievably great attitude. I learned so much in this class and even though I didn't perform anywhere near as well as I would like to, by the end of the class I was shooting better, I could at least see myself screwing it up as it happened (which is huge) and I have some solid ideas about what I need to work on and how I can do that. Just as importantly, I want to keep working at it.

    Before this class I had very little carbine experience and I hadn't even picked up the gun in a couple of years in part because I got really turned off by my experience in another class. I kept telling myself I should get out there and do some shooting, but never seemed to find the time or the motivation. This course was just too good an opportunity to pass up and I am astonishingly glad I did not. It's obvious that Sean and Jack both really care about their students, and their enthusiasm and positive attitude are contagious. They are also both extremely generous with their time, attention and in Sean's case equipment. I shot most of the class with an optic that Sean let me borrow (yes, I bridged the gap; no, I had no idea that was a bad thing at the time) and over lunch Sean broke out the tools and helped out some folks whose guns were having minor issues.

    I also really appreciate the PF members. This was a great group of guys and fun to take the class with. Thank you. And thank you to Tom, Jay, Ashton, Tim, and Sam for making the class happen.

  9. #19
    Man, I had a post all typed out and it didn't get through. I'll go with what I have from my cut and paste.

    A big thank you to pistol-training.com for making this happen. A thank you to all the regional people that helped this to fruition. A thank you to pistol-training.com, Tom, Ashton, and Rich for the free swag that was so useful both during the class and in the future. I'm sorry that I had to miss the out of class social get-togethers, they sounded pretty cool. It was nice to meet you all, and you seem like a great bunch of folks.

    Sean and Jack are both excellent teachers and I really appreciated the opportunity to learn from them.

    The class had a wide variety of experience levels and almost two dozen shooters. That makes it more complex than your run of the mill 4:1 ratio regional instructor weekend. I'm very sure Sean and Jack had to dial back the lessons from their normal classes. I am sure that with a bunch of high speed students they would have really laid down even more good stuff. This class' students were not, for the most part, ready for that. Jack and Sean had to work with what they had, and they both aced it. I remember thinking that I was very glad that I wasn't a new recruit and Jack wasn't my instructor, because he would have smoked many of our behinds and been 100% justified doing it. He is a patient man. Like someone else wrote, we were hobbyists, many of which had weapons and optics that ran more dough than many people's first cars. One of the best shooters, that "won" the end of the day shoot, did it with a Soviet-era, open sights, agrarian tool (AK with Aimpoint).

    I'm not going to cover all the drills because I do not remember them all. One of the AARs on the pages I linked above did a good job of that. I'll write about some of the stuff I remember from my POV.

    What really shined about this was Sean and Jack's input and unique perspectives. The course material was topical and complete as I would expect. You know all those douche bags that "scan and assess" after each course of fire? Sean ripped that, explained WHY, WHEN, and HOW he'd do that, and how not to be a 'tard doing it. Jack did things like mentioned the logistics and drawbacks of "bridging the gap" on carbine uppers. Jack's ability to hold it in and not smack us upside the head when we did stupid stuff on basic position shooting can only come from a man that has done that so many times that it is second nature. I'd hate to get on his bad side, truly. The same goes for Sean. Also, does Sean remind anyone else of a much more bad ass of Herc from The Wire? Both men brought real world examples to what they were teaching us without making "war stories" out of it. They encouraged us to ask questions, and do so in the group so that everyone could learn from them. They answered any question thoughtfully, throughly, insightfully and without outward judgment.

    My errors were totally on me. Some due to my spazzing, some due to not being able to hear due to my earpro cutting out thanks to mag dumps the next bay over, some due to tiredness. Going in to this I asked if they'd recommend using my EOTech or my ACOG. Jack wrote to use the one I was weaker with, so I chose the ACOG. I have/had maybe 200 rounds through it at under 100 yards. I was honestly regretting choosing it. It was so, so slow on the 5-7 yard drills. The hold over took eons to get close to right. I was really sucking with it. I am dramtically slower with that ACOG than my EOTech. I really was really discouraged. I wasn't even doing well on the 100 yard portion that Jack was teaching. Prior to class I haven't shot a carbine since at least September of last year. Well, maybe 5-10 rounds at trout camp last month. I was rusty, I was inexperienced, I was just screwing up, and I knew it. Sean called me out on it more than once, and I totally deserved it. I was holding my AR with my support hand in the 6:00 position, and he told me I looked like Cagney and Lacey holding a .38. Harsh, but totally true. It was so true that it didn't even sting to hear it, but highly effective in getting the point across. When I shot Sean's box drill on day 2 I did it very inefficiently on the first run through. Sean again called me on it, explained why it was sub-optimal. I honestly shot it that way due to earpro issues, but him pointing it out made me "regame" that course of fire and think about it properly. All the close distance/near retention shooting was something that I never tried with a carbine before. That was very new and different. By day 2, and a pair of gloves after burning myself 3 or 4 times doing it right the day before, it was coming back to me. I was starting to get some feel of what I should have been doing. Enough to make me know that I wanted to shoot more and promise my self to make it out to the range at least once or twice a month. By the end of day 1 I was discouraged, but by the end of day two and another 265 or so rounds fired I was ready to keep trying.


    Even if we would have been dumped on by a flock of pigeons, anyone that got two free days of free Tier 1 instruction for FREE and has the balls to whine about it needs a kick in those balls.

    Thank you again to all involved for the great learning opportunity.
    Last edited by Len McM; 05-19-2015 at 10:20 AM.

  10. #20
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Virginia
    So time for my AAR:

    I showed up to "facilitate" this event...and unlike the corporate world where those who "facilitate" are almost entirely worthless drains who do no actual work, I actually, you know, worked. I was there to help with logistics, help keep the line safe, and coach when necessary.

    It was pretty clear from the getgo that several folks didn't have much training experience...which is cool. That's one of the reasons we do events like this, to make the experience more accessible. My big concern was safety but to my delight I didn't look down the muzzles of any weapons this weekend. The folks who showed up took Sean's safety brief seriously and obeyed the rules. Kudos to everyone on that front.

    The folks who showed up seemed to have good attitudes...they were there to learn and took instruction readily. Kudos for that.

    The main benefit for me was watching two skilled instructors present a solid program that will take somebody from zero to reasonable competence in a very compressed time frame. I got a lot of ideas and picked up some new drills that I'm going to use the next time I do some carbine work.

    Hearing about the technical realities of these weapons from two people who can speak with authority was also kind of liberating. The weapons and ammunition being used here are, by in large, not capable of MOA or better accuracy. I know that's a shock because EVERYBODY ON THE INTERNET HAS A RIFLE CAPABLE OF 1/2 MOA ACCURACY, but I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of people on the internet are lying. Also a shock, I know. (Ancient Chinese proverb: Internet, where the women are men and the girls are actually FBI agents) It's liberating to know that if your gun is shooting 5" groups at 100 yards that it's probably not just because you suck. The gun/ammo combo is probably just not able to do much better than that. It's sort of liberating to know that minute of asshole mechanical accuracy is a real thing and a lot of bad people are in the dirt even without single bullet hole at 1,000 yards accuracy.

    I enjoyed hanging out with everybody...and I even had fun breaking down video and techniques for a couple of folks who were around after the conclusion Sunday night waiting on their flight. Hopefully it was useful information for them. "I was in a hotel room until 3:30 AM with a dude I met on the internet!" is tough thing to explain, so kudos to you guys for braving that. And I totally won't mention that you had trouble figuring out how to load my staple gun. I would never make fun of somebody for that. Never. Also, my staple gun is awesome.

    Sam was a big help on day 1. Kudos to you, dude.

    Pennsylvania is a very strange place. I seemed to be the only person in the state who gave a damn about the speed limit. 55 MPH work zone? I slow down to 55 MPH. Everybody else kept doing 80. Perhaps I've just been thoroughly institutionalized by Virginia and our BS speed enforcement regime. (Go over 80 MPH in Virginia and you can be jailed) The number of different towns/incorporated areas/whatever is also quite a pain in the neck as the nav computers all seem to not realize the difference between Pittsburgh, Beaver, Center, etc. They were certainly completely unprepared for the number of construction projects and detours in the area. But any area where they put a beef fillet and french fries on a salad can't be all bad. Seriously. It was steak and french fries on some lettuce with a couple of tomatoes and a parmesan garlic ranch dressing. They call that a "salad". It was like that Fosters ad.

    These kind of events are good for passing on useful information, developing skill, and most importantly from a forum standpoint, developing a sense of community. We hope to do more in the future.

    Big props to Jack and Sean for donating their time this way. They did this out of the goodness of their big ol' hearts. I enjoyed the instruction and the fellowship...and if you ever feel generous enough to do this sort of thing again I'll do my very best to be there and assist again.

    Big props to Sean's family for tagging along on this little adventure. They shoot pretty damn good to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna B View Post
    Thank you Tim and Jack for your helpful instruction! I appreciate all you guys letting me and my son work in for some drills.....or our attempt anyway. Thank you Jay, Ashton and anyone else involved putting this together. We had a lot of fun.
    Happy to be of assistance! You guys had as much right to be on the line as anyone and I was glad to see you getting some trigger time.

    It was also pretty awesome to watch the little one actually start to have a little bit of a fit because his big brother told him that there were "pew pews" in the world that don't actually belong to him. It's a sure sign he's being raised right.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 05-19-2015 at 09:30 PM.
    3/15/2016

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