Guns for Girls

[runcible]

BOM,

Well, while the topic description of "I'd like to see a list of guns carried by our significant others," would be benign to most; the title-proper of "Guns for Girls" uses a pretty explicit dimunitive when the context is one's presumably adult partner. Given the initial emphasis on female partners of the readership, the title\description combination could be read by many as excluding any female readership themselves. In many venues, this follows-on with a range of paternalistic remarks from one part of the debate, but generally without inviting the subject population themselves to participate.

[SLG]

pax,

I can understand that, thanks for explaining.

The only thing I might disagree with is the type of thread. The reason guys might ask what other guys' wives carry, is because there are WAY more guys on here than women. That will probably always be true, because though I don't find anything strange about a woman who shoots, a smaller percentage of women shoot compared to men. An even smaller percentage know what they are doing, so I do think that makes firearm competent women atypical, in the honest sense of the word. Few men are truly competent, fewer women still. A very small handful of women can shoot anywhere near the abilities of the top 10% of the men. Of course, that leaves 90% of men unable to hang as well. Where you draw the competence line is up to you, but my interests and my wife's interests lie at the top end.

[Tamara]

I guess I don't see how this is grating.

SLG,

Of course you don't. Like jh9 pointed out; you wouldn't notice it, and it's nothing that was intended to be grating, insulting, or demeaning.

The OP didn't ask for recommendations for girls, he asked to see the guns that PF's female significant others carry.

The OP asked the assembly as a whole what our female significant others carry. The unstated assumption being the assembly as a whole here at p-f.com are dudes (and straight ones at that! ) I made a little joke in response, but it fell flat.

Now, generally on gun fora over the years, I've just learned to put a sock in it and just roll with it when this shit comes up, but if Kathy was gonna speak up, I wasn't going to leave her hanging out there all by herself. I think the world of Kathy, and she's absolutely right, here. Frankly she ...and every other high-profile woman in the shooting industry... puts up with shit that you guys don't even notice (not through any fault of your own, it's just not aimed at you!) and we usually just keep our cakeholes shut about it because for a long time, that was the only way to get taken seriously in the boys' clubhouse. And let's not kid ourselves, that's what the shooting industry largely was and (mostly) still is. But we're trying to grow this industry into other demographics and I think you know someone heavily involved in that effort.

Maybe the term "girls" was grating...

Nah.

When members do ask for recommendations for women, though some are quick to recommend a specific brand, there are usually a number of posts saying "ask her", or "let her try a bunch out and pick one."

Maybe I'm just a sexist, but there are significant differences between men and women...

Yes, but the point of those responses is that there are not only significant differences between men and women, there are also significant differences between women and women, just like between men and men. There's no more a "good gun for a woman" than there is a "good gun for a man". Three women have responded to this thread who range in height, hand size, shooting experience, daily dress, et cetera. The ideal carry gun for someone who's 5'2" and wears body-conscious clothing and spends a lot of time in NPEs is not the ideal gun for someone who's 5'12" and dresses like a hobo and works from home. (Unless an agency mandates they carry the same gun, which is like mandating everybody wear a Size 10 boot, but that's a topic for another day. )


For what it's worth, my Significant Other carries a Les Baer TRS, and he seems to like it a lot.


EDIT: Shit, I typed too long. Now I gotta go back and read and see what's been OBE. :/

[JodyH]

Sheesh...
The nits people choose to pick.

[Tamara]

Sheesh...
The nits people choose to pick.

EDIT: Offensive, flippant retort edited.

Seriously, Jody, there's a grownup conversation happening here. SLG made very legitimate points; Kathy replied likewise. There's a chance for people to learn from each other here and grow as people and shit, so why don't we see if that happens?

[SLG]

Tam,

Like pax, thanks for explaining. I do get what you are saying, but I guess I still see the difference as representative of the population. In the english language (as I know you and everyone else here know) the masculine encompasses the feminine. How many women are there on PF? Does an OP have to say, "Ladies and gentlemen" every time they ask a question, or can they ask the question in a way that helps show what they are interested in? I assume that the OP in this case has a female significant other, and wanted to hear from others in a similar position.

As far as women being different from men, and one woman being different from another woman, of course, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I thought anything else.

Everyday at work I have to deal with female shooters who are marginal, because they have been taught incorrectly from the beginning. None of those women are less capable than anyone else, they just have years of poor training to overcome. As do the men. I think its instructive though, that with the same training, the men manage to do better. Once you teach the women how they need to do things, they shoot right up there with the men. I guess my point is that poor training is still poor training, but since it comes from a man's perspective, men manage better with it. And, until we have more high level female shooters out there, the training that the rest get will lag behind compared to what is available to men. Of course, some men do know how to teach women, as do some women. Just not that many.

As a man, I find it interesting to hear what other enthusiasts wives carry. And by wives, of course I mean girlfriends, friends, etc... I feel like I'm digging a hole at this point, so I'll stop. I try to take the female perspective into account in most things that I do, so maybe I just need to try harder in this regard.

FWIW, I got your joke right away:-)

[BK14]

Hey Tamara/PAX,

The topic of teaching a S/O to shoot (competently) has been on my mind a lot since my girlfriend started showing some interest in my shooting. With the points that were brought out, on ways that guys can inadvertently offend the women in their lives, and the different ways of training women to shoot, I was wondering if you all had any pointers? I want to do it the right way, and in a way that doesn't come off offensive. I also know that you are both competent shooters from everything I've seen on this board, so I'd love to hear a "how to do it right" kind of post offering up some tips from reputable sources like yourselves.

Just like there are only a handful of firearms instructors I would go to or recommend for men, there are even fewer for women.

Any trainers in particular that jump out at you which you would recommend?

Thanks everyone,
Cole

[Haraise]

Hey Tamara/PAX,

The topic of teaching a S/O to shoot (competently) has been on my mind a lot since my girlfriend started showing some interest in my shooting. With the points that were brought out, on ways that guys can inadvertently offend the women in their lives, and the different ways of training women to shoot, I was wondering if you all had any pointers? I want to do it the right way, and in a way that doesn't come off offensive. I also know that you are both competent shooters from everything I've seen on this board, so I'd love to hear a "how to do it right" kind of post offering up some tips from reputable sources like yourselves.



Any trainers in particular that jump out at you which you would recommend?

Thanks everyone,
Cole

I've had great experiences with Ms. (Debbie) Keehart and Ms. (Kippi) Leatham, entirely recommended.

ETA: First names, for looking up.

[BK14]

I've had great experiences with Ms. Keehart and Ms. Leatham, entirely recommended.

Thank you! I'm local to the Leathams, so I'll have to check into that, I didn't even know that she taught.

[Haraise]

If you're around the Phoenix area, send me a PM and I'd be happy to help you out as much as I can on that.