1sthand commentary from someone who defended himself in a home invasion attempt

[Chuck Haggard]

I've busted down a lot of doors and unless the jamb is hardened as well, the door style makes no difference. All the doors in the housing projects were steel but were not hard to break in. In a way the worst were hollow core entry doors. A near miss on locks/knobs results in a hole in the door and no more.

Yup, I get that, I've breached hundreds of doors, and worked at least a thousand burglary calls over the years. Concur.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'll throw out this is an example of why guys like Doc and I advocate a person have at least two examples of their carry gun.

A gun used in a fatal shooting will be tied up for at least awhile as evidence, and the gang members making threats thing is a very real issue.

[LittleLebowski]

I'll throw out this is an example of why guys like Doc and I advocate a person have at least two examples of their carry gun.

A gun used in a fatal shooting will be tied up for at least awhile as evidence, and the gang members making threats thing is a very real issue.

Yup, Mike_P lost his Glock for nearly a year and had to deal with the gang threats.

[Chuck Haggard]

Yup, Mike_P lost his Glock for nearly a year and had to deal with the gang threats.

In some places a year would be a really short time to get the gun back. Locally, it's likely only a couple of months, but that's still a couple of months.

[Shellback]

Good info Tom. Thanks!

[Lon]

This sort of thing is also why I think the current state of door and frame construction in the US is criminal.

On'es door should not blast open on one or two kicks.

In the hundreds of search warrants I served working dope there were only two doors that ever gave us trouble. Onn was a metal residential door with a non standard jamb. Instead of your typical jamb they used treated 4x4 posts on either side of the door. The jamb never did give way, we ended up hitting the door enough it bowed far enough to give way. Rear door was hardened the same way.

The second door that gave us trouble was a custom solid oak door. That sumbitch just laughed and laughed at us. The resident finally came to the door and unlocked it for us. I don't remember what the door jamb was like on that one. I can't remember why we just didn't go to a secondary breach point, but I know there was a reason.

[LittleLebowski]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is completely wrong. The locking bolt/security pin (the small, typically semi-circular, pin behind the bolt) should NOT pass the strike plate and fall into the hole. If it does, then the door (assuming there is no deadbolt) can be shimmed with a credit card or similar implement.

This YouTube video probably does a better job explaining what I'm saying:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xnE8MCn9Phg

In my experience, about 90% of these locks are installed incorrectly.

I watched this video and ran over to Amazon after seeing that there's nothing I can buy from the link referenced in the YouTube video and I'm still not sure what to buy.

[Hambo]

I've got one word for you guys worried about someone slipping a doorknob lock: deadbolts.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm against doorknock locks after some years of thought on the subject, they lead to people getting locked out of their house accidentally while adding nothing to the security of the door.

[Mike_P]

This is where it pays to know the attitude of LE in your area. Here, in the same circumstances as Mike P, I would probably not call an attorney immediately. I've interacted with the SO and they have always been on the side of the good guy or victim.

I'll also second Chuck's general advice to acknowledge people at the door. I also make myself conspicuous if I see someone at a neighbor's house, driving slowly, etc. I've called in more than one suspicious vehicle.

About your dog going off differently than normal. I started reading "The Gift of Fear". It's about how we process information without really thinking about it. The author mentions that dogs have no secret way of evaluating people but react to their owner. The door bell ringing set off your alarms, which set off your dog's. It's happened with our dog and my wife. If she's scared, the dogs react much more aggressively.

You did the right thing and you did well. Good job!

Thanks for the kind words! My dog has been amazing with things like this. It wasn't the first time he's had that reaction, albeit the first time it wasn't quite to the degree it was in this occasion. My girlfriend and I were walking him one night a few years prior to the home invasion and he started acting this way (In a whole different town.). Turns out a guy was mugging people and breaking into cars in the apartment complex we were in at the time. Our dog, Jack, apparently saw/smelled the guy even though it was pitch black in the field next to us (The field was attached to a playground which was part of a church.). Once we arrived in the parking lot, the police officers asked us if we had seen anyone, to which we replied yes though it was hard to tell, but the dog definitely did. So we went back to the spot where it occured and sure enough, the dog starts reacting again. So we just let him lead and he basically brought is along with the Police directly to the guy, who was then hiding on the playground in the dark. He had stolen a gun out of someones car and everything but gave himself up as soon as he saw that we knew where he was and had police with us.

Mike, I totally get your attitude towards "if they are going to kick a door, let them kick my door", I really do.

Many/most of the people who I see not answer a door and then have it kicked in are the very people who I would not want having to face that, an example would be the 89 year old lady that used to live four houses down from me and had her back door kicked after hiding from the guy at the front door, hoping he would go away.


Ref somebody brought up weapons; If my door was just kicked, and I had confronted two bad guys at my back door, and when challenged they advance, I don't care if they are armed or not, one or both of them is getting immediately shot.

It's a horrible situation. I really wish it had never happened and I don't wish it on my worst enemy. It changes your life in drastically negative ways. I just responded as required and used the least amount of force to end the incursion. With that said though, despite doing the right thing and coming out alive, I would trade just about anything to just never of had it happen in the first place.

Great thread, we are indeed lucky to have this here. Thanks, Mike!

My pleasure. Any time I can share or answer questions, I'm more than happy to. It's a crappy situation, but if just one person takes something away from it, then it's worth it.

Agreed this is a great thread. Thanks for sharing your experience, Mike. Glad you had the training and mindset to make it out of that situation unharmed. You did the right thing. Take care of yourself.

Thank you for the kind words.

Thanks for posting this. A lot of food for thought.

Definitely! If you think of any questions, I'm here.

Mike_P, thank you for sharing your experiences with the group. Do you recall any issues with your hearing, especially when calling 911?

In regards to my hearing, there was no issue with the 911 call. There was a degree of auditory exclusion which had occured. The actual gun shot was muffled because of it, however my immediate hearing afterwards was very dulled for a matter of minutes. It wasn't until after the event (A few months) and things calming down that I finally realized my hearing just isn't the same. My left ear is effected by tinnitus and I think my actual hearing from that ear is approximately 70-80%, give or take. In my physical leaving the military they did not note much on it though. When my primary care provider at the VA finally started getting a baseline for me, she checked my ears and did note scarring over my left ear drum.

Well done and glad you're okay. I completely agree with that sentiment. I'm in that situation - one neighbor is a couple in their 70's and the other a single mom. Plus, if for some reason I've been targeted I don't want them to return when I'm not there and other family members are. I routinely ignore people at my door unless I know them or it's a scheduled appointment.

We have gangs here who also do this stuff in broad daylight. If you answer they'll ask about a dirt bike for sale or some nonsense. If not they either kick in the front door or move to the back. And if they find your car keys you can expect them to borrow it as well.

Sadly the individuals from the home invasion made the drive to my city from another. The crime in my city really wasn't bad, but because of that, I'm sure others security was more relaxed than it should have been, and thus they came to our area. There's no telling how many other homes were effected or broken into by this group or others.

I'll throw out this is an example of why guys like Doc and I advocate a person have at least two examples of their carry gun.

A gun used in a fatal shooting will be tied up for at least awhile as evidence, and the gang members making threats thing is a very real issue.

I completely agree. Two is one, one is none. My Glock 26 was my primary carry at the time, however we had duplicates as my girlfriend liked the 26 as well. I ended up carrying that and she moved to a Kahr P9 which she carried before we bought her the 26. I carried my 26 in the summer and a 23 all other times.

Yup, Mike_P lost his Glock for nearly a year and had to deal with the gang threats.

Correct, the glock was taken that day, 1 June 2012 and I received it back in October 2013. Via FedEX directly to my door from the evidence department at the Sherrifs office.

In some places a year would be a really short time to get the gun back. Locally, it's likely only a couple of months, but that's still a couple of months.

To be honest I expected it to be gone longer. It took a lot of talking with the DA, Sherrifs office, and anyone else involved to get it released. Not only that, but since we had moved across the country, we had to figure out the logistics of putting it back in my hands without having me fly all the way back.

They ended up FedEXing it back to me, but I had to pay the shipping cost, which was well worth it.

The Glock has been back in my posession ever since, but it's sat in our safe. I'm not sure why I haven't carried it, perhaps because I sort of replaced it in the year it was gone, but maybe I just subconciously feel weird about it. I can't really say. I know I love and trust my life with it.