Army, Marines face new pressure to use same ammunition

[Jeep]

Vickers is right though, for the ammount we will spend on either round we could roll out ALOT of m193 as training ammo and fix our collective softwear issues, but to 99 percent of the USMC bullets is bullets, most don't know the difference.

I thought maybe the Marines would try to fix those software issues in the hopes that the Army would learn something from you guys. It was only a faint hope, of course, and it looks like you are following the Army instead, which is too bad.

[Shawn Dodson]

Training does not magically turn a non-barrier-blind bullet into a barrier-blind bullet - in those situations where a barrier-blind bullet will make a difference.

[Jeep]

Training does not magically turn a non-barrier-blind bullet into a barrier-blind bullet - in those situations where a barrier-blind bullet will make a difference.

But training, of course, is what will get either bullet on target in the first place. Personally, I'd rather the services use a cheaper bullet that sometimes fails than a significantly more expensive better round IF (and only if) the money saved is used on more training ammunition.

[ranger]

The earlier comment about the new M855A1 not fitting into the safety zones of existing ranges is a pretty big deal. Lots of money will potentially be spent to move dirt, relocate range roads, etc as a second-third order effect of this ammo change.

[Unobtanium]

So what if regardless of the round settled upon, troops trained with M193, more training was afforded due to the lower cost, and zeroes were adjusted in-theatre?

Wear would be a non-issue.
Training would be increased.
Cost would be decreased.
No changes to existing facilities would be required.

Am I missing something?

[ranger]

So what if regardless of the round settled upon, troops trained with M193, more training was afforded due to the lower cost, and zeroes were adjusted in-theatre?

Wear would be a non-issue.
Training would be increased.
Cost would be decreased.
No changes to existing facilities would be required.

Am I missing something?

NO, you are right. We do the same thing with TOW missiles, 40mm grenades, 25mm, tank rounds, etc. - we train with a "training round" and use "war shots" in theater.

[Kevin B.]

Am I missing something?

Irrational concerns about the environment.

[Unobtanium]

Irrational concerns about the environment.

I understand, it would be a shame for all of the lead to go into the ground. We should put it back where we found it. Wait...

[DocGKR]

When produced in quantity on SCAMP, there is little cost differential between M193 and Mk318, so why train with one and fight with the other?

[Dave J]

The earlier comment about the new M855A1 not fitting into the safety zones of existing ranges is a pretty big deal. Lots of money will potentially be spent to move dirt, relocate range roads, etc as a second-third order effect of this ammo change.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Most of our existing small arms ranges were built to the old "cone shaped" SDZs, and many don't actually meet current standards. Installation commanders sign a ton of waivers every year.