The Mindset to Harm.

[BehindBlueI's]

I can tell you how to tell afterward. I've had people tell me in post shooting interviews they missed on purpose. This was such a foreign concept to me that I can barely begin to describe the psychological pressure that was in my head to not stop the interview, slap them, and then resume the interview. Your life was in danger and you decided to use your gun like a starter pistol? You just relied on fear to keep him from shooting you and fleeing instead? God favors fools and drunks, but come on! I've sure others who don't actually admit to it have done so as well based on their body language and responses during the interview.

I think many people have a gun but don't have a plan. They think the gun makes them safe. It is a talisman against evil and simply needs to be carried, not a tool that needs to be partnered with a plan and implemented. They never play the "what if" game. I'm a firm believer in running scenarios in your head. Me and my partner were at a restaurant with a very small dining room. A guy goes to the bathroom, a 1-holer right with a door about 2 yards behind my partner's chair. "What if" time. "What if he comes out with a gun to ambush us? I formed a plan. I was then vaguely surprised when he came out and went about his day. I'm vaguely surprised a lot. This is good. My first FTO told me my first traffic stop, expect them to run. Then when they stop you're pleasantly surprised. When they do run, you aren't surprised at all because you expected it and you'll execute your plan.

If you can convince someone of the value of the "what if" game, and if they do it, and if that plan involves shooting if necessary, I would hazard that its more likely than not they will shoot if required. I firmly believe that with exposure and training, most (not all) folks can reach the point where they can.

[Trooper224]

Eveyone imagines themself to be a gunfighter, until the fighting with guns actually starts.

[voodoo_man]

I can tell you how to tell afterward. I've had people tell me in post shooting interviews they missed on purpose. This was such a foreign concept to me that I can barely begin to describe the psychological pressure that was in my head to not stop the interview, slap them, and then resume the interview. Your life was in danger and you decided to use your gun like a starter pistol? You just relied on fear to keep him from shooting you and fleeing instead? God favors fools and drunks, but come on! I've sure others who don't actually admit to it have done so as well based on their body language and responses during the interview.

I think many people have a gun but don't have a plan. They think the gun makes them safe. It is a talisman against evil and simply needs to be carried, not a tool that needs to be partnered with a plan and implemented. They never play the "what if" game. I'm a firm believer in running scenarios in your head. Me and my partner were at a restaurant with a very small dining room. A guy goes to the bathroom, a 1-holer right with a door about 2 yards behind my partner's chair. "What if" time. "What if he comes out with a gun to ambush us? I formed a plan. I was then vaguely surprised when he came out and went about his day. I'm vaguely surprised a lot. This is good. My first FTO told me my first traffic stop, expect them to run. Then when they stop you're pleasantly surprised. When they do run, you aren't surprised at all because you expected it and you'll execute your plan.

If you can convince someone of the value of the "what if" game, and if they do it, and if that plan involves shooting if necessary, I would hazard that its more likely than not they will shoot if required. I firmly believe that with exposure and training, most (not all) folks can reach the point where they can.

I agree completely.

Ive had situations where I went into houses with backup, on shots fired calls, one specifically we heard the shots walking upto the domestic and I found myself solo, shy the two officers I walked up with clearing the stairs, they couldnt go inside, id call that being mesmerized by fear. Same officers reported off on time during a foot pursuit I was in with a guy that just shot and killed two drug dealers and shot at an officer. I had a long talk with them, going over a few things.

One Retired, one took a desk and hasnt been on the street since.

Every rookie I get I ask them a simple question before we get on the street to know where their head is.

"Would you hesitate to kill a 10 year old girl who was about to kill me?"

Some of the answers.....are shocking.

[Lost River]

How do you plugged-in instructors know when someone considering carrying a firearm-and the responsibilities thereof-doesn't have the mindset to do so ?

I don't pose this to condone an anti gun political view; it is simply an observation during my active duty days that a lot of folks in uniform were just not comfortable with deadly force.An attitude shared by many citizens too.I dont judge them for it-we all have different views ,that's life-but can an individual who thinks "concealed carry=paranoia" or "deadly force= never ever" change their mindset to understand the less warm and fuzzy side of Homo Sapiens ?

My observation is this: You probably know the types. They are the guys who will jump the hot/potentially violent calls and go out of their way to be involved. For example. A few months back my coworker/partner heard that the city had a bank robbery with two armed subjects on the run. He was literally running for his unmarked SUV and hauling ass while I was retrieving his body armor for him from the back seat. By the time we got in the area, he was fully suited up, complete with rifle on lap. Without hesitation he jumped into a chase with a known armed bad guy and when time came, literally ran past other cops to take one of the armed guys down. He has the mindset that if there is going to be a fight, he wants to be in it.

Another incident from just a few years ago. After an insanely high speed chase and big wreck, a gunman ran into a hotel, killed one patron and shot one trooper. I pressed him up a hotel stairwell. He was a smaller guy literally hiding behind a large woman that he was holding a gun to her head. He dumped half a mag at me when I was slicing the pie on the stairwell corner. I may have said some bad words.

I radioed for help and I had a younger city cop who is also on the city swat team show up in the stairwell. He knew I had just been shot at. When I told him the plan was when the BG got under 10 on his countdown (threatening to execute the hostage)we were rushing up the stairs to shoot him at close/contact distance, and that one of the two of us would likely get shot, but he likely couldn't get us both before one of us put rounds into his head. The young city cop never even hesitated, even when faced with a 50/50 chance of eating rounds. This kid had a fighter mindset.

I don't know about teaching it. I think people are simply wired towards it, or not. While training helps, I don't think you can create the kind of person who will aggressively go into harms way if its not already in their blood.

That said, you can develop those who do have it through training, to make them more efficient (not sure that is an accurate descriptor) in their mindset (focusing on achieving the objective) and skill sets (how to accomplish their objective) in a violent and or austere environment..

Hope that helps a little.

[LSP552]

I don't know about teaching it. I think people are simply wired towards it, or not. While training helps, I don't think you can create the kind of person who will aggressively go into harms way if its not already in their blood.

That said, you can develop those who do have it through training, to make them more efficient (not sure that is an accurate descriptor) in their mindset (focusing on achieving the objective) and skill sets (how to accomplish their objective) in a violent and or austere environment..

"Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.” Attributed to Heraclitus

There is still much truth to this....

[Lomshek]

I don't know about teaching it. I think people are simply wired towards it, or not. While training helps, I don't think you can create the kind of person who will aggressively go into harms way if its not already in their blood.

That said, you can develop those who do have it through training, to make them more efficient (not sure that is an accurate descriptor) in their mindset (focusing on achieving the objective) and skill sets (how to accomplish their objective) in a violent and or austere environment..

Hope that helps a little.

Use of violence is way out of my lane but that holds very true in sport. Some people are determined to be the first one around the first (or last) corner in a race or the first off the line no matter what while others are happy to just be in the pack and others seemingly hold back to see what everyone's in a hurry about. You can teach someone the mechanics of moving fast but you can't make them move fast or aggressively.

[23JAZ]

The mindset that allows for "I forgot my gun" is the same mindset - to a varying degree - that makes allowance for a "NPE" gun. It's also part and parcel of the same mindset that rationalizes the carry of a high capacity Glock 9mm with spare ammo SOME of the time as being perfectly acceptable, while carrying a pocket .380 ALL of the time is flirting with disaster.

If we were really honest, most of us have a chink in our mindset armor somewhere.

Agree 1 million percent. However our mind set is the exception not the rule. I've seen people have complete mental breakdowns because that guy over there has a gun. To most people a gun is at best something to "get deer" with. Never mind those evil pistols. I guess what I'm trying to say is for some dude who doesn't naturally have the mindset most guys on this site have, carrying a gun some of the time is a HUGE step.

[LSP972]

I've had people tell me in post shooting interviews they missed on purpose. This was such a foreign concept to me that I can barely begin to describe the psychological pressure that was in my head to not stop the interview, slap them, and then resume the interview. .

Wow. That's a new one on me.

I too would have a lot of trouble restraining my initial response.

.

[BaiHu]

To the guys who have been training others for over 15 years:

Have you noticed a drop in "mindset" as more "leaders" lead from the back?

My impression is that the less this mindset is in leaders, the less it is in followers. I recall being 8 years old (33 years ago) in peewee football and wanting to sacrifice my body to prove to my coaches, teammates and self that I had the intestinal fortitude. And my sentiment was the norm on my team. We wanted to put the other team down.

Contrast this with me recently watching a friend's son's rugby match (14 years old) and the hesitancy to hit people was appalling to us both. His kid played hooker and he still scrapped more often than his twice bigger teammates.

[KevinB]

Several years ago on a LE/MIL CQB Instructor course, (just prior to me starting at KAC), we had a SWAT officer (from my then county) tell our squad he could not shoot first or last in a relay as he "did not do well under pressure", one of the Marine's in the squad turned and said, "dude you need to rethink your day job", and the Deputy did not understand why.

You see the same thing in a lot of places, folks who want to go do work, and others that prefer to stay away from work, their training/background can be the same. Some people have a hunting gene, some do not, and while non hunters can be proficient, it's mostly a harder road for them, and in the hunter category, their are those that live for it, and others that do it as they see it is required, but enjoy being able to turn it off.