G19 with RMR06 and KKM compensator

[SLG]

You've mentioned before that your practical accuracy standard for Glocks is 4" at 25 yards or a bit further. That works out to about 1" at 7 yards, though I'm pretty convinced that the further distance of any equivalent target sizes is always harder, due to optical effects if nothing else.

Is that standard meant to be slowfire group shooting with all the time in the world, or do you hold it to some sort of time standard or something?

What would you say your average group sizes with your Glock are at 25 yards with: 1) Trijicon Bright and Tough sights, 2) A thinner front sight of your choice, and 3) A red dot sight of your choice?

I don't remember saying (though I may have) MY accuracy standard for Glocks is around 4", but I often find Glocks that won't do better than that. My first Gen 3 G22 would do 2", and my first gen 2 G19 (MANY years earlier) would hold 1.25". In general 4" seems to be what I usually get though.

No matter how accurate the gun, I am only capable of holding around a 2" group offhand. The G19 mentioned above was shot off a rest to produce those groups.

All group shooting, has to be done with no time limit. Other wise it is more than a strict accuracy drill. That's fine, but putting time limits on it won't help you zero the gun, and won't tell you how accurate it and you can be.

As for the different sights, For many years now I have only really shot the standard Trijicon's. My current Gen4 G22 will hold around 2.5" for me. I've had many different g22's over the years, and several Gen 4's in the last 18 months alone. Most gen 3's were closer to 4", and most Gen4's were less than 3". I will often get a true 2" group, but it is less consistent for me than with some other guns. Could easily be my technique and not the gun itself, IDK.

As for the MRDS, currently I only have one Glock set up that way, and it has a Bar-Sto barrel, so I don't know if that counts. It will shoot around 1" at 25 yards. I have routinely gone 5X5 on a 6" plate at 100 with it, but I would not say that is a current, on demand ability.

I have no real experience with a thinner front sight on my Glocks. I used to do that to my Sigs all the time, but have not done so to the Glocks. No good reason, I just haven't. Can't compare a Sig to a Glock, but with my 229's I could hold 2" on demand, and often less than 4" at 65 yards. Those guns were very accurate and very shootable.

I shot a Steel Challenge match this weekend, and it reminded me how much I prefer a thinner front sight for speed work, especially on multiple targets. Big advantage, afaic.

[JHC]

Take this for what you are paying for it; but this has become an obsession with me concerning evaluating my current Glocks or any I might purchase.

With the trigger reset, I pinch the back of the slide while holding the pistol very firmly and attempt to wiggle the slide, side to side. If there is ANY play whatsoever, I won't buy the pistol.

Among my current stable; those with zero perceptible play have shown to be the most precise. Some with fairly noticeable play have shown to be more like the 4" guns SLG referenced. In one Gen 3 G19 in this category (significant play) I saw ZERO improvement in precision with a KKM barrel. Whereas that same KKM barrel (non comped) in my RTF2 G19 (with no perceptible side to side play) really improved my 25 yard performance with it dramatically.

[SLG]

Take this for what you are paying for it; but this has become an obsession with me concerning evaluating my current Glocks or any I might purchase.

With the trigger reset, I pinch the back of the slide while holding the pistol very firmly and attempt to wiggle the slide, side to side. If there is ANY play whatsoever, I won't buy the pistol.

Among my current stable; those with zero perceptible play have shown to be the most precise. Some with fairly noticeable play have shown to be more like the 4" guns SLG referenced. In one Gen 3 G19 in this category (significant play) I saw ZERO improvement in precision with a KKM barrel. Whereas that same KKM barrel (non comped) in my RTF2 G19 (with no perceptible side to side play) really improved my 25 yard performance with it dramatically.

Can you explain your test a little more fully please, I'm not following completely. Is the trigger held to the rear, or all the way out? I assume all the way out, since you said reset, but maybe you mean at the wall?

FWIW, a certain female shooter who used to shoot for Glock, would hand pick a frame and trigger. The frame on a Glock is critical to how well things go. The slides are much more forgiving.

[okie john]

FWIW, a certain female shooter who used to shoot for Glock, would hand pick a frame and trigger. The frame on a Glock is critical to how well things go. The slides are much more forgiving.

Can you go into more detail about what she was looking for?

Thanks,


Okie John

[spinmove_]

Can you go into more detail about what she was looking for?

Thanks,


Okie John

Also curious. That's intriguing.

[JHC]

Can you explain your test a little more fully please, I'm not following completely. Is the trigger held to the rear, or all the way out? I assume all the way out, since you said reset, but maybe you mean at the wall?

FWIW, a certain female shooter who used to shoot for Glock, would hand pick a frame and trigger. The frame on a Glock is critical to how well things go. The slides are much more forgiving.

Right, trigger reset and finger off the trigger. In strong hand I grip it tightly and with my offhand I pinch the slide back at the slide serrations and try to rock it sideways.

I got a GSSF award Gen 4 G35 in last winter (random draw, I didn't actually "win" it). Dang if it didn't wiggle a bit. I shot it once with a couple loads. Couldn't coax anything better than 4-5" out of it.

But I have a Gen 4 G31 that has shot lights out for precision (I've gotten 2-3" offhand - several times with four of the five in an inch) and it's rock solid tight - side to side. So I moved the Gen 4 G35 slide assembly to the G31's frame to attempt to isolate whether the slide was the variance or the frame. The G35's slide wiggled the same amount on my G31 frame as it did on it's own frame.

So I drew the conclusion that the issue was with the slide - but I could be wrong about that.

[SLG]

Can you go into more detail about what she was looking for?

Thanks,


Okie John

Her male teammate did the same, fwiw, but I don't remember the details off hand. It had to do with how the trigger fit the frame, iirc. I'll ask.

Point being that the frame controls a lot of what goes on in a Glock, and simply dropping a nice trigger (or doing some kind of a trigger job) won't always give you the results you want. Frame fit was a critical component. Both of them shot essentially stock triggers as well.

[spinmove_]

Her male teammate did the same, fwiw, but I don't remember the details off hand. It had to do with how the trigger fit the frame, iirc. I'll ask.

Point being that the frame controls a lot of what goes on in a Glock, and simply dropping a nice trigger (or doing some kind of a trigger job) won't always give you the results you want. Frame fit was a critical component. Both of them shot essentially stock triggers as well.

Please do ask, if it's not too much trouble. I'm interested to know what sort of mystical voodoo frames they were hand picking.

[okie john]

Her male teammate did the same, fwiw, but I don't remember the details off hand. It had to do with how the trigger fit the frame, iirc. I'll ask.

Point being that the frame controls a lot of what goes on in a Glock, and simply dropping a nice trigger (or doing some kind of a trigger job) won't always give you the results you want. Frame fit was a critical component. Both of them shot essentially stock triggers as well.

Based on my (mis)adventures with match barrels, I'd guess that what we're calling frame fit has something to do with the relationship between the locking block and the barrel.

But that's a guess.


Okie John

[GRV]

I don't remember saying (though I may have) MY accuracy standard for Glocks is around 4", but I often find Glocks that won't do better than that. My first Gen 3 G22 would do 2", and my first gen 2 G19 (MANY years earlier) would hold 1.25". In general 4" seems to be what I usually get though.

I don't remember the actual quote, but at the time it sounded like the point you were trying to get across was that 4" @ >~25 yds was about the most practical accuracy you actually cared about being able to achieve with a Glock or other duty weapon for duty purposes. That's why I asked about time, but yea, I agree regarding time and groups. I don't know if it was meant to be a personal standard for duty or a team standard.

I shot a Steel Challenge match this weekend, and it reminded me how much I prefer a thinner front sight for speed work, especially on multiple targets. Big advantage, afaic.

Interesting. What sights were you using?

When you say "thinner front sight", do you mean a thin front sight (<= .115") in combination with a relatively wide rear notch (~.150")? Or, do you mean to say it's primarily the thinness of the front sight that helps your speed, irrespective of the rear notch width?