G19 with RMR06 and KKM compensator

[Luke]

If it's an consolation, there's guys doing this with real open guns in the very low 3's. Yes this is a welfare open gun, but the only advantage I see is the mini magwell and the red dot. The gun handling is the challenge on this test, and body can shoot two to the head in sub 2, and .20 splits to the A zone aren't even fast with a bone stock Glock.

I don't think using the Roland special would be much of a gain in THIS test. I'd love for some people to shoot this with just a red dot and then again with the magic compensator.

[SLG]

Understood and point taken. However, this is my EDC gun. Wouldn't it make less sense to shoot a gun that I did not carry to meet the standard?

In addition, many people actually say that red dots are slower at close distances. So for them my run was with a handicap.

I spoke with Ernest and he was OK with it because he knows I carry it. Additionally, Gabe White didn't seem to mind nor did Josh Savani who I spoke with tonight at a USPSA match.

I know you are an innovator sir and I respect that. I am however proud of my accomplishment and ask you to consider that rds equipped guns are the future.

It would make no sense to shoot a gun you don't carry for FAST. My only point was it shouldn't count for a coin. It simply isn't even close to being the same as irons, and is not in the spirit or intent of FAST. I understand why EL allowed it, but it is not an equal accomplishment by any means.

Red Dots are not slower at all. Anyone who thinks so either has no real experience with them or is not a very good shooter. There may be an exception to that based on eyesight or something, but as a rule, it is true. I shoot a dot pistol once or twice a year. Never slower than my normal gun. You obviously don't think it is a handicap and neither do I.

I like dot guns. They are fun toys to shoot, and may well become the way of the future once the technology allows for it. Currently, they are not the way to go. Obviously others feel differently, and that is fine.

Shooting better than you did yesterday is always something to be happy about. I would encourage you to take pride in your own progress, not someone else's measure that cannot apply to your situation.

[Luke]

I can dig that. ^^ mutual agreement that red dots are a big advantage

[DocGKR]

When I first got an RDS equipped pistol in the 2010 time frame, Todd let me shoot my AFHF FAST test using a G19 with RDS--at that time he had no problem with someone using an slide mounted RDS carry pistol for a FAST test...

[SLG]

When I first got an RDS equipped pistol in the 2010 time frame, Todd let me shoot my AFHF FAST test using a G19 with RDS--at that time he had no problem with someone using an slide mounted RDS carry pistol for a FAST test...

I believe I remember discussing that with him.

I have never said that Todd would have objected. That isn't the issue. The issue is that the dot pistol is such an advantage, that it invalidates the times we came up with for the standard. Carbines are the same way.

I can't swear to this, but I believe that Frank Garcia requires people with dot guns to shoot his signature drill from a further distance than iron guns. He certainly understands the advantage a dot provides.

[MVS]

It would make no sense to shoot a gun you don't carry for FAST. My only point was it shouldn't count for a coin. It simply isn't even close to being the same as irons, and is not in the spirit or intent of FAST. I understand why EL allowed it, but it is not an equal accomplishment by any means.

Red Dots are not slower at all. Anyone who thinks so either has no real experience with them or is not a very good shooter. There may be an exception to that based on eyesight or something, but as a rule, it is true. I shoot a dot pistol once or twice a year. Never slower than my normal gun. You obviously don't think it is a handicap and neither do I.

I like dot guns. They are fun toys to shoot, and may well become the way of the future once the technology allows for it. Currently, they are not the way to go. Obviously others feel differently, and that is fine.

Shooting better than you did yesterday is always something to be happy about. I would encourage you to take pride in your own progress, not someone else's measure that cannot apply to your situation.

I have been shooting my RMR G19 for about seven years now at 10,000 rounds a year give or take. 5 yards and in I am still faster with irons. 7 it depends on target size. 10 and out dot all the way. FWIW.

[Jay Cunningham]

http://pistol-training.com/archives/9309

[AsianJedi]

http://pistol-training.com/archives/9309

According to Todd in the above referenced article:

"But the MRDS, because it appears and disappears as the gun moves in recoil, has a lower performance ceiling than iron sights. In other words, your maximum potential speed with the MRDS is less than your maximum potential speed with an iron sight. That’s why pistol shooters tend to eschew the MRDS as they get more skilled, at least for close to moderate range shooting where speed is as much a factor as accuracy."

[YVK]

Now that Carry Optics has been around for a bit and having observed different folks shoot it at various level matches, looking on comparative data from Nationals and big matches, I remain unconvinced that the dot is an advantage across the board. Especially when mounted on carry sized pistols. If I thought it was, I would've been all dotted up. I love buying me some performance 'cause I can't do it in an honest way.

[SLG]

According to Todd in the above referenced article:

"But the MRDS, because it appears and disappears as the gun moves in recoil, has a lower performance ceiling than iron sights. In other words, your maximum potential speed with the MRDS is less than your maximum potential speed with an iron sight. That’s why pistol shooters tend to eschew the MRDS as they get more skilled, at least for close to moderate range shooting where speed is as much a factor as accuracy."

I didn't realize you were carrying a gun with less potential. My bad. You should switch to a better gun right away.



I'm well aware of Todd's thoughts on the matter. He was fairly inexperienced with red dots. If you want to play a stupid game, keep going.