Class, Police Trades, and Carry Position.

[Virtuosity Student]

I was recently referred here by another member and have been lurking for a while. I joined and did a couple of searches and couldn't really find what I was looking for.

I have just over 1,000 saved now for a quality gun, belt, holster, and class. The classes I am looking at run anywhere from 500 and up. The belt and holster budget is about 100-150 tops. This leaves only about 400 for the gun itself and hence I am looking at police trades as most are carried more than shot. While some would find it unforunate that they are 40 S&W, my father happens to shoot and reload 40 and has a nice stash which he has agreed to give me the 1,000 +/- rounds needed for training.

The police trades offer good value as most come with steel night sights and 3 mags. The ones I am looking at are:

M&P 40
M&P 40c
G22 Gen3
G23 Gen3

Which of those would probably give me the longest duration being chambered in 40? The interwebz mostly seems to favor the M&P but I can't help but think about the G23 size since its the equivalent of the highly esteemed G19. And I have read that you can send Glock police trades back to Glock and they will give them a "tune up". Can anyone validate that?

My next conundrum is carry position. I know this is subjective and will likely require some trial and error on my part. I have small children which means a lot of bending down (seems like this would be a PITA for appendix) and only having one hand available as the other is usually holding a kid. I am sure someone here can chime in who is in a similar situation and offer sound advice as to a carry position.

Sorry for the novel, just want to get it right out of the gate. Thanks PF!

[LittleLebowski]

I'd go with an M&P40 and strong side IWB.

[BehindBlueI's]

It doesn't matter. The differences are so minor as to be completely irrelevant to a beginner or novice. Any of them are easy guns to learn to shoot, and easy to shoot reasonably well. Shooting is like any other skill or sport. Early gains come quick and easy. As you get better and better, the next tiny bit of difference is much harder to get. THAT's the point when gear starts to matter. Once you're looking at an inch difference at 7yds, a tenth of a second on draws, etc.

Compacts will be slightly easier to conceal. Full size will be slightly easier to shoot. Neither is groundbreakingly different.

As far as 'duration', all of them are durable. The odds of you putting enough ammo through any of them to break them are very very tiny.

[JSGlock34]

In my experience, the size difference between the G22 and G23 is much more significant in terms of recoil control than the same pistols chambered in 9mm. I shot the G23 for years (my only .40 handgun) and found it much more snappy than its G22 cousin. If given the choice of a Glock .40, I'd choose the G22 all day long over the G23.

As far as the "Glock tune up", see if there is a GSSF match in your area. They usually have a Glock Armorer on site who will inspect your pistol replace the springs in your pistol for free.

IWB or a OWB 'pancake' style holster (such as the Raven) would seem the way to go.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'd be seriously tempted to go with the 40c, those guns are roughly G19 sized, and lower recoil than the Glocks in .40

[breakingtime91]

I was recently referred here by another member and have been lurking for a while. I joined and did a couple of searches and couldn't really find what I was looking for.

I have just over 1,000 saved now for a quality gun, belt, holster, and class. The classes I am looking at run anywhere from 500 and up. The belt and holster budget is about 100-150 tops. This leaves only about 400 for the gun itself and hence I am looking at police trades as most are carried more than shot. While some would find it unforunate that they are 40 S&W, my father happens to shoot and reload 40 and has a nice stash which he has agreed to give me the 1,000 +/- rounds needed for training.

The police trades offer good value as most come with steel night sights and 3 mags. The ones I am looking at are:

M&P 40
M&P 40c
G22 Gen3
G23 Gen3

Which of those would probably give me the longest duration being chambered in 40? The interwebz mostly seems to favor the M&P but I can't help but think about the G23 size since its the equivalent of the highly esteemed G19. And I have read that you can send Glock police trades back to Glock and they will give them a "tune up". Can anyone validate that?

My next conundrum is carry position. I know this is subjective and will likely require some trial and error on my part. I have small children which means a lot of bending down (seems like this would be a PITA for appendix) and only having one hand available as the other is usually holding a kid. I am sure someone here can chime in who is in a similar situation and offer sound advice as to a carry position.

Sorry for the novel, just want to get it right out of the gate. Thanks PF!

the g23 has a lot of felt recoil but honestly you could use it for awhile then switch it over to 9mm once you save up money for more ammo

[JMS]

he has agreed to give me the 1,000 +/- rounds needed for training.

Whichever class(es) you take, ping the instructor and see if you may use reloads. Many (most of the good ones...) do not allow them.

Why: Outright liability aside (KABOOM), if your gun ends up choked on homebrew ammo...they have an entire rest-of-the-class to teach, people who paid just as much for instruction as you did. He/she cannot in good conscience focus on an individual's equipment shortfalls at the expense of other paying customers, and it'd be rude/illogical of any student to think that they should (unless they have other staff on hand, who may be spared from assisting with providing instruction; not always the case).

Some teachers don't care, though. It's worth asking.

[jh9]

OP doesn't specify, but if this is a first gun / first class affair, then two things pop to mind:

Hopefully OP's dad takes into account how terribad recoil is out of a Glock 22/23 and tones them down a bit. Factory .40 out of a Glock 23 is brutal to put it kindly. Manlier shooters may disagree, but it's worth noting

Getting started with a multi-hundred round, multi-day class is laudable, but not unlike drinking from a fire hose. Paying several hundred dollars for a class that's going to saturate your brain 15 minutes after the first round is fired is kind of wasting money. Basic NRA Handgun 101 is like $50 locally. A more efficient use of money might be a few smaller, more focused classes rather than jumping in the deep end of the pool with one weekend-long deal.

[psalms144.1]

Factory .40 out of a Glock 23 is brutal to put it kindly.

Getting started with a multi-hundred round, multi-day class is laudable, but not unlike drinking from a fire hose. Paying several hundred dollars for a class that's going to saturate your brain 15 minutes after the first round is fired is kind of wasting money. Basic NRA Handgun 101 is like $50 locally. A more efficient use of money might be a few smaller, more focused classes rather than jumping in the deep end of the pool with one weekend-long deal.

These were two of my thoughts as well. First, if this is your first handgun, I wouldn't start with a .40 S&W in order to afford other stuff. What's the cost differential between the police trade in .40s and a similar platform, used, in 9mm? Especially in the 3rd Gen pistols, recoil with full factory .40 in G23s is no fun - I can attest to this from uncomfortable experience. The recoil control issues associated with shooting 500 rounds/day of .40 through a G23 or M&Pc are likely to cause significant issues with recoil anticipation, etc.

If a friend of mine had $1K to spend on a starter pistol, accessories, and a training class, and was a NEW SHOOTER, I'd recommend a decent kydex OWB holster (heck - for about $40 you could get a perfectly good "range" holster like an ALS-equipped Safariland - like this one: http://www.opticsplanet.com/safarila...-glock-19.html), a decent belt (like this https://www.daltechforce.com/strongest-gun-belt for $50), and a couple-three kydex mag pouches (http://www.kytexgear.com/products-pa...arriers/glock/). Then, instead of a $500 1000-round-two-day course, I'd find a decent basic marksmanship and gun handling course (the NRA 101 would do the trick), and spend the "savings" on either a lightly used G19/G17, or a VP9, or a P320.

Learn the basics with the guidance of someone local, practice until your skills plateau, THEN spend the money on a "name" trainer to get you to the next level. Dry fire confirmed with live fire on the range, with someone you can go back to to verify you're doing things correctly (or to help you fix things that go wrong) is key.

Of course, if you're already confident and comfortable with the basics of marksmanship and gun handling, and you're looking to get to the next level, you may be on track. I still think taking a heavy round count course with any Glock in .40 is a recipe for pain and suffering, though...

Regards,

Kevin

[breakingtime91]

These were two of my thoughts as well. First, if this is your first handgun, I wouldn't start with a .40 S&W in order to afford other stuff. What's the cost differential between the police trade in .40s and a similar platform, used, in 9mm? Especially in the 3rd Gen pistols, recoil with full factory .40 in G23s is no fun - I can attest to this from uncomfortable experience. The recoil control issues associated with shooting 500 rounds/day of .40 through a G23 or M&Pc are likely to cause significant issues with recoil anticipation, etc.

If a friend of mine had $1K to spend on a starter pistol, accessories, and a training class, and was a NEW SHOOTER, I'd recommend a decent kydex OWB holster (heck - for about $40 you could get a perfectly good "range" holster like an ALS-equipped Safariland - like this one: http://www.opticsplanet.com/safarila...-glock-19.html), a decent belt (like this https://www.daltechforce.com/strongest-gun-belt for $50), and a couple-three kydex mag pouches (http://www.kytexgear.com/products-pa...arriers/glock/). Then, instead of a $500 1000-round-two-day course, I'd find a decent basic marksmanship and gun handling course (the NRA 101 would do the trick), and spend the "savings" on either a lightly used G19/G17, or a VP9, or a P320.

Learn the basics with the guidance of someone local, practice until your skills plateau, THEN spend the money on a "name" trainer to get you to the next level. Dry fire confirmed with live fire on the range, with someone you can go back to to verify you're doing things correctly (or to help you fix things that go wrong) is key.

Of course, if you're already confident and comfortable with the basics of marksmanship and gun handling, and you're looking to get to the next level, you may be on track. I still think taking a heavy round count course with any Glock in .40 is a recipe for pain and suffering, though...

Regards,

Kevin

awesome advice