Concealed Carry in the Era of Terror

[jh9]

it's well-nigh miraculous in my opinion that there was no blue-on-blue there ...

Which mirrors my concern.

The article points out not every first responder is going to be at the top of the game. Someone with an eotech mounted wrong or a magazine inserted backwards bothers me less that someone that identifies a threat and even though protocol is to issue commands they just start shooting at the "threat" due to adrenaline and bad training. This is also true for non-LE CCWers since most self defense training is to shoot the threat since, well, it's self-defense and that means the threat is obvious.

That doesn't mesh well with interdicting in an active shooter since there are plainclothes LE and other ordinary citizens maybe doing the exact same thing and even in the best-case they've probably only been trained to deal with self-defense (i.e. shoot the obvious threat vs IFF). In the worst case they're completely untrained and haven't experienced an adrenaline dump with a loaded gun in their hand before.

I understand the author's point, but it seems borderline suicidal to get involved here. Not because you'll get killed by a terrorist but because you'll get killed by a good guy or you might be the one to accidentally kill another good Samaritan. Does a guy opening fire on a cluster of AK wielding terrorists outside your field of vision look like someone shooting indiscriminately whilein the throes of tunnel vision? It seems like that would be an easy mistake to make...

[ffhounddog]

I get from the article not to run and gun it but to protect ones self and get out of the way. Granted I would want to get out of the way because your average run of the mill street cop is going to be amped up as they should be and they will probably not say freeze when the see me with a handgun or captured AK I took off dead muj. I just know If I have the opportunity to put down the threat I can since I am carrying and I should be thinking that.

Not to say anything negative about police training but the average qual course does not involve run and gun. It has gotten better with some courses but a lot of it is still on flat range. Took my wife to one of John's Classes and it was the first time she had to move more than a few feet while engaging targets.

With her finally shooting outside of qual, or a month before qual, has actually made her more aware and more switched on due to shooting with other officers and agents and incorporating their ttps at her work.

[Hambo]

BaiHu and I were instructed by a retired DoD 1811/LE firearms instructor that we should use the SUL as a default stance in a shooting situation, as it is universally recognized as a "good guy" type of thing to do.....and thus,it helps our chances of not being smoked by LE upon their arrival.

That should read, "guarantees we will get smoked." The officers you encounter will be those who were able to nut up and enter a mass shooting. They won't be thinking "good guy" when they see a gun.

Someday, probably soon, an "open carry" guy with an AK or AR is going to get killed by somebody with a CCW.

My own plan is not to get more involved in the fight than I have to. I'll protect me and my wife, and other innocents who want to come along, but I'm not going hunting with a pistol and no body armor while good guys hunt the area.

I'm also glad that when people read this article they will see that a J frame (or similar) and no spare ammo is not a reasonable 21st century carry option.

[LSP972]

I did my time helping people as an officer. I did my best and was usually pretty good. Now retired and as I get older my level of training is dropping off, I'm going to tactically retreat. As a civilian that means in a controlled manner to run like hell with the only plan to shoot anyone is if they are in the way of me and the only exit.

I wrestled with this for quite a while when I retired. It only took a couple of well-meaning citizens being flayed upon the altar of political correctness to make me adopt the above attitude... in spades. Taking it one step further, my SOP is: you threaten me or mine directly (or have a bomb or something that will wipe us out along with everybody else nearby), then I'm engaging. Lacking that, I'll make a good witness- whatever it is I witness while beating feet.

I have been taken to task by more than one acquaintance for this; its like they think I have some sort of moral obligation to protect them because I was a cop once. If you believe that, then I've got some prime Florida property for sale...

.

[LSP972]

I wouldn't count on it. Not every agency uses SUL and a good portion of the agencies I know don't use it. The LCD Officers there probably wouldn't recognize it as a "good guy stance".

Exactly so. Your average street copper has no clue what Sul is. If you have a weapon in your hand/s, the BEST you can hope for is to get proned out and cuffed.

If bullets are flying, you''ll very likely be shot.

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[LittleLebowski]

The guy who mentored my CCW/pistol shooting years ago (VERY pro 2A retired BATFE agent) advised me not to have a weapon in my hand and to have my ID out and held high. His reasoning is that LE often think that's a badge and automatically do a second take instead of shooting. I am just a civilian, I don't think I'll ever have to worry about this but to me, it makes sense.

[Irelander]

you threaten me or mine directly (or have a bomb or something that will wipe us out along with everybody else nearby), then I'm engaging. Lacking that, I'll make a good witness- whatever it is I witness while beating feet.

This.

I think the take away for me from these articles is to be prepared. Be prepared to protect myself and my loved ones. Be prepared to get out of Dodge if things go down. Always keep in the back of your mind the location of exits. If you must engage, holster up and comply if you hear the cavalry coming.

[TGS]

The guy who mentored my CCW/pistol shooting years ago (VERY pro 2A retired BATFE agent) advised me not to have a weapon in my hand and to have my ID out and held high. His reasoning is that LE often think that's a badge and automatically do a second take instead of shooting. I am just a civilian, I don't think I'll ever have to worry about this but to me, it makes sense.

That absolutely makes sense.

The instructor was posing this to us as something to do if the threat was still present and you still needed a gun in your hands, FWIW.

[DI1]

I have been teaching LEOs 15. We don't teach SUL, and we don't use that term on the range. I think it would do nothing to help.

We are plain clothed agents and we teach that if you are not clearly marked (vest or jacket), once you hear the sirens and see the marked units, holster up, hands up. Follow the marked unit commands because they don't know who you are. In the heat of the moment, belt badges and neck badges are hard to notice when guns are out...


Not saying don't help out, I am just saying the responding cops are going to be amped up and looking for threats. Don't look like a threat, follow commands, no fertive movements. No matter what you say, you are probably getting proned out and cuffed. Even an off duty cop would expect to be cuffed until responding officers verify who he is.

Exactly this!
SUL is NOT recognized by many LE and is a technique not widely taught for a reason....this has been discussed previously.

[RoyGBiv]

I want that bumper sticker

http://www.zazzle.com/i_used_to_be_a...44273755786018