Concealed Carry in the Era of Terror

[Lon]

Question for the LE here:

BaiHu and I were instructed by a retired DoD 1811/LE firearms instructor that we should use the SUL as a default stance in a shooting situation, as it is universally recognized as a "good guy" type of thing to do.....and thus, it helps our chances of not being smoked by LE upon their arrival.

I wouldn't count on it. Not every agency uses SUL and a good portion of the agencies I know don't use it. The LCD Officers there probably wouldn't recognize it as a "good guy stance".

[Peally]

I used to be a people person but people ruined it for me.

I want that bumper sticker

[Gadfly]

I wouldn't count on it. Not every agency uses SUL and a good portion of the agencies I know don't use it. The LCD Officers there probably wouldn't recognize it as a "good guy stance".

I have been teaching LEOs 15. We don't teach SUL, and we don't use that term on the range. I think it would do nothing to help.

We are plain clothed agents and we teach that if you are not clearly marked (vest or jacket), once you hear the sirens and see the marked units, holster up, hands up. Follow the marked unit commands because they don't know who you are. In the heat of the moment, belt badges and neck badges are hard to notice when guns are out...

Not saying don't help out, I am just saying the responding cops are going to be amped up and looking for threats. Don't look like a threat, follow commands, no fertive movements. No matter what you say, you are probably getting proned out and cuffed. Even an off duty cop would expect to be cuffed until responding officers verify who he is.

[ffhounddog]

You know you can train this better to Civilians than to Cops in a lot of areas. We all need the wake up call but many in LE leadership this is a "it happens over there, not here" issue.

[psalms144.1]

Question for the LE here:

BaiHu and I were instructed by a retired DoD 1811/LE firearms instructor that we should use the SUL as a default stance in a shooting situation, as it is universally recognized as a "good guy" type of thing to do.....and thus, it helps our chances of not being smoked by LE upon their arrival.

I'm a DOD 1811 FI, and I bet I could count on one hand the number of folks in my (1,000+) agency who would recognize a SUL position, or have ever seen it demonstrated.

A lot of guys get a lot of good ideas from a lot of different places, then preach them as gospel - just because they heard SUPERNINJADEATHBLOSSOMFORCEGRU-99 uses it. Not saying there's anything malicious in it, just lots of folks pass on lots of "tainted" information.

To add to this, having just sat through another iteration of our after action briefing from the WNY shooting, it's well-nigh miraculous in my opinion that there was no blue-on-blue there, given the size of the building, the confusing nature of the layout (five floors, literally thousands of square feet per floor of offices containing cube farms - total nightmare), and the fact that, until pretty late in the action, there was basically no one even trying to control the flow of people into the building. Watching the 22 minute edited version of the surveillance video, I lost count of the number of different uniforms I saw - USN Masters at Arms, Navy District Washington PD, Metro PD, Park Police, ATF SRT, our guys in plain clothes with kit, you name it. Lots of dudes brought their A-game that day, but there are lots of "over a beer" stories of "teams" meeting each other at gun point around corners, opening doors into/out of stairwells, etc.

Anyway, I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled program...

[Lon]

We are plain clothed agents and we teach that if you are not clearly marked (vest or jacket), once you hear the sirens and see the marked units, holster up, hands up. Follow the marked unit commands because they don't know who you are. In the heat of the moment, belt badges and neck badges are hard to notice when guns are out...

Yep, this is what I teach as well. Uniform trumps plain clothes every time.

[GardoneVT]

Ill share some words from my campus newspaper editorial , featuring the headline "What If ..theres an ACTIVE SHOOTER?"

"Students should feel safe and secure, as in general this is considered a safe campus.There are 13 full time officers,four part time officers and six student volunteers.All faculty and staff are trained in how to deal with an active shooter (a powerpoint which essentially says 'take a number and wait to die'),and there is a Behavioral Intervention Team in place which handles concerning situations ."


Hmm.Cant you guys just feel the safety oozing through your web browser?

[Kyle Reese]

Ill share some words from my campus newspaper editorial , featuring the headline "What If ..theres an ACTIVE SHOOTER?"

"Students should feel safe and secure, as in general this is considered a safe campus.There are 13 full time officers,four part time officers and six student volunteers.All faculty and staff are trained in how to deal with an active shooter (a powerpoint which essentially says 'take a number and wait to die'),and there is a Behavioral Intervention Team in place which handles concerning situations ."


Hmm.Cant you guys just feel the safety oozing through your web browser?

I'm sure that the Westgate Mall was quite safe, until that day in September 2013...

As trite as it sounds, complacency kills.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TGS]

Ill share some words from my campus newspaper editorial , featuring the headline "What If ..theres an ACTIVE SHOOTER?"

"Students should feel safe and secure, as in general this is considered a safe campus.There are 13 full time officers,four part time officers and six student volunteers.All faculty and staff are trained in how to deal with an active shooter (a powerpoint which essentially says 'take a number and wait to die'),and there is a Behavioral Intervention Team in place which handles concerning situations ."


Hmm.Cant you guys just feel the safety oozing through your web browser?

Well, my idea of a Behavioral Intervention Team for an active shooter is probably a lot different than theirs......

[steaknvodka]

Well, my idea of a Behavioral Intervention Team for an active shooter is probably a lot more effective than theirs......

Small typo there, fixed it for ya