I hear ya. Just reading about the terrorists indiscriminately killing kids makes my blood boil. Those Muslim terrorists are the evil of evils. Not sure I could turn the other way if I saw that happening right in front of me.
I hear ya. Just reading about the terrorists indiscriminately killing kids makes my blood boil
If there is a shooter between me and the exit - or, hell, at least within easy eyeshot of me - I would draw and take the shot.Originally Posted by Irelander
I hear ya. Just reading about the terrorists indiscriminately killing kids makes my blood boil
However, I think the idea of "running towards the gunfire" for the average person is a terrible idea. The odds of me doing a lick of good against someone with a rifle in a large open area are next to zero, and the odds of me hitting a bystander and/or getting shot and killed by the shooter or LEOs are quite good.
I am realistic about my ability with a pistol. I think that plate racks and cardboard USPSA targets (both shoots and no shoots...) have good reason to fear me. Your average goon with a felonious desire for my wallet probably will regret picking me for prey. However, committed murderers with rifles are simply not opponents I am willing to pick a fight with unless they bring the fight to me - in which case my death is already very much on the table. I think I can do much more good by providing first aid to victims on the scene (medical student) and assisting EMS first responders than I would trying to take on a shooter with an AK with my Glock 19. As much as I wish I had the training and resources to respond to such violence with violence, I honestly have trouble envisioning myself realistically being a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem in an active shooter scenario.
As an aside - I really dislike the fixation on Islam and domestic US violence. I think there is plenty about an active shooter scenario that can be discussed without feeding already rampant xenophobia in our community. It doesn't exactly make us out to look like the sort of people that others want to be carrying guns, and is not a healthy mental practice either.
While its true that most current terrorist threats are from Islamic radicals, that doesnt mean that all Muslims are radical or terrorists. Some dont get that difference. One of the people that did run to the guns in Westgate and help people get out was a Muslim guy. The majority of people being picked on by ISIS in Syria and Iraq are Muslim, as are the majority of the people doing the best work at hacking them down to size.
And then, there's the discussion I had today at a meeting I coordinated between our local first responders and the "leadership" of the installation where I work. Y'all would be proud of my restraint in not throat punching the "Installation Commander" who insisted that, in accordance with his policy, in the event of an active shooter in our building, he would lock down all entrances (they're on magnetic locks) and have the exterior gates closed and locked.
It took a LONG time to convince him that all that would accomplish was locking potential victims IN the building with the shooter. All he kept circling around to was "I'm the Commander. It's my responsibility to ensure the security of this facility!" For a while, I thought the first responders and I were just going to walk out. Eventually, one of the other military guys in the room (a senior Enlisted guy) managed to convince him that he's responsible for the people who work in his building as well. I swear, you can't make this kitten up.
Of course, it might have had something to do with me asking the ranking police officer there, part of the local SWAT, what his breaching capabilities were, since they would have to breach their way into the building...
I love my job, I love my job, I love my job...
Agreed. If I were to adopt the Col. Jeff Cooper "what IF" philosophy, as in what if I were the BG planning a mass attack along the lines of what's been seen in the news, i'd be sure to seed the crowd with a sleeper agent. One 'shopper' or 'teacher' who looks like another hostage or victim, there to ensure any armed & plainclothed individuals are dealt with.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...tive-shooter-2
http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...s-murder-stats
and my thoughts have not changed any since I wrote this bit a few years ago;
http://www.thetacticalwire.com/featu...featureID=3593
Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 04-26-2015 at 10:31 AM.
I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
www.agiletactical.com
good links.
I have told the guys I work with that the sooner you inject yourself into this type of situation the sooner itll end and the more lives youll save.
VDMSR.com
Chief Developer for V Development Group
Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.
Another good incident to look at is the Boston Marathon manhunt and what happened after the MIT officer was killed. A civilian concealed carry holder injecting themselves into the middle of that mess would have run a serious risk of getting hurt or killed by the officers responding. They were lucky more LEO's weren't hurt or killed by blue on blue shootings and to the best of my knowledge, everyone responding to that was in uniform.
Part of my job involves community outreach to civilians about what to do in active shooter event. I always encourage them to focus on getting out alive and leave the searching and stopping of the the threat to trained LEO's especially when it comes to possible terrorist events with multiple attackers and IEDs. Regardless if you are a civilian or LEO, preparation is important. I try to push that out too. As a society, more of these are coming our way.
I recently visited Smithsonian museums in D.C. while carrying, and at one of the museums the security supervisor who let me in asked that if something went down, I refrain from participating because I might be mistaken for an attacker.
His (very sensible) request reminded me of this thread.
I had an interesting conversation about all things terrorism recently and some one asserted a pretty good point. One of the many reason we haven't had more "lone" terrorist attacks is the fact that unlike places like france, we have a lot of armed cops, armed former veterans, and armed legal citizens. This adds a factor that terrorists have to take in that makes it more difficult for them to carry out a "successful" attack. Do I think its the end all be all? Nope. Do I think it could contribute to the the fact we haven't had some like france happen since ISIS started gaining traction.. probably hasn't hurt
Reply With Quote