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Thread: Banning the SERPA

  1. #21
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonovanM View Post
    Maybe he got some cash from the Blackhawk marketing gestapo?
    True Story:

    ĦBlackhawk! is one of the sponsors of this shindig at Blackwater back in '08. A bunch of us gun bloggers go for a three day class with Todd Jarrett and get the dog-n-pony shows from Blackwater, ĦBlackhawk!, and Painted Ordnance.

    Among the swag we get from ĦBlackhawk! is a box with a belt and a couple of holsters in it: A CQC (which is a fine and serviceable holster that I use for range use and casual competition to this day) and a SERPA. It is obvious that we are meant to use the provided gear for the upcoming class. (Here is where I pause and reflect on the irony of leaving a Springfield Pro and a Sparks belt and VM-2 in my room so I can use a Para in a plastic holster for the class...)

    The virtues of the SERPA are extolled. Todd shows off how fast one can be with the SERPA. Everybody wants to use their SERPA. I'm all like "Are you guys fuckin' nuts?" and shot the class with the CQC. I mean, are gun grabs a real problem at Blackwater, anyway?

    I'm not sure I've ever used the SERPA with anything but my blue gun...
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

    I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

  2. #22
    Member VolGrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowofwisp View Post
    Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute (Steve Fisher and Assoc.)

    I think Steve Fisher banned them over a year ago, there was a video of a shooter in his class whose gun was locked up in the serpa (he hadn't even rolled around in the dirt!)

    http://www.michigantrainer.com/
    I bet I know who they do recommend though.

  3. #23
    I believe Steve also had a student ND with a Serpa a few years ago. Pincus had a cop ND with one back at Valhalla in CO.
    I've watched Jarrett demo with a Serpa a few times. Each time, I saw him fumble the release, but he is fast enough that most did not notice. Claude Werner has observed the same thing with Jarrett demoing at SHOT.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JFK View Post
    SERPA < Spiders

    So as Prdator would say.....



    That is awesome. When the SERPA first came out I thought it was great. I have since changed my mind. I am almost ashamed of some of my opinions in the past, and often wonder what I believe now that will change in the future
    "When you are talking to the average person, you are talking to a T.V. set"-RDJB
    "Intelligence is not the ability to regurgitate information, it is the ability to make sound decisions on a consistent biases".- Me

  5. #25
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    I am almost ashamed of some of my opinions in the past
    Dude, I'm over the big five-oh and you have no idea what stupid was unless you lived (and shot) in the '70's. Things change and (hopefully) we learn as we age. My opinions have changed quite a bit as I get older. I'm not ashamed that my strong opinions changed radically due to training and field experience proving me wrong to myself. Acquire the information, process the data and apply if appropriate. Big boy pants help.

    Todd, interesting take on the problems with Serpa holsters in this youtube video:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Sturmgew.../6/GDpxVG9XFJc

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxas View Post
    That is awesome. When the SERPA first came out I thought it was great. I have since changed my mind. I am almost ashamed of some of my opinions in the past, and often wonder what I believe now that will change in the future
    Don't be ashamed of that. As one who has freely expressed his opinions in the past, and one who has also had those opinions change, I would suggest it is far more shameful to be so rigid that one's opinion does not change even in the wake of new evidence. Heck, that might make a good thread, Todd.... gun/gunfighting opinions I have held and changed over the years??
    "PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jlweems View Post
    Welcome to VolGrad's world. (I sure hope he sees this )

    LOL - Seems like this follows him wherever he goes.

  8. #28
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    I'm been trying for over a year to inform our program managers about the issues with this holster. A link to the youtube video from Tex sent the day he posted it. Our policy doesn't dictate what holster we carry, it list certain requirements and that everyone on the team uses the same holster. So different units could very well be using different holsters. The fact that it uses a "Pivoting Hood" vice a "Rotating Hood" as our authorised options allow should have stopped it from being used. As I see operational units using them, I stop, explain and demonstrate the potential dangers and have so far gotten everyone of them to recall the holster from the individual units.

    As far as service wide however.... it's going to take someone wearing blue to get shot before the message is sent out.

    As a safety officer for competitions I'm observant of what types of holsters that competitors use and reposition myself when SERPA's are being used before I run them through a COF. My staff was skeptical of the possibilities until they watch some of the video's that have been posted lately.

  9. #29
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    My sisters spouse has a co-worker who was shot while they were attempting to draw their gun on a murderer. There was a mild investigation as to why, but the wound was so minor the officer was back to work the next day. The final word was "Level III retention requires more practice" and people needed to put more time on. The fact that the holster could have been jammed was never considered. This was late 2010. I know that agency still issues/requires Serpas, not just Level III retention.

    The murderer who shot the cop has not been caught. They were present long enough for the officer to piss with the shitty holster, shoot a few times at the cop and leave. When presented with the argument that the Serpa could be directly linked to further murders the relative simply says "but my instructor (from their academy) says they are good."
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  10. #30
    Member virginiatactical's Avatar
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    John Murphy of FPF Training also Bans the Serpa. Well he 1/2 bans it. Just not allowed with striker fired weapons.

    http://www.fpftraining.com/ccsd.html

    I can see the merit of banning it, and I am personally not a fan. I have not banned it in my courses yet, but I am also considering it for 2012. My biggest issue is what if that is the issue gear of that police officer? Am I really going to not allow him to use the holster he is issued?

    I had a private course with an LEO a few months ago, and his holster was the Serpa with his G17. It would not make sense (in my head) to tell him that he cannot shoot his duty gun with his duty holster. Especially since he was paying out of pocket for 2 days of private training. We talked about the safety issues of the Serpa, and continued with the training regime.

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