Banning the SERPA

[Jeff22]

One of the new kids at work was considering buying a Serpa holster for off duty use. I referred him to this discussion.

He actually read part of it. He read the FLETC report on the problems with the Serpa and decided to buy something else (he's still researching I think)

I have to give him credit. Most of the time when one of the kids asks my opinion about something they don't pay attention to what I tell them nor read any material I refer them to that explains my conclusion . . .

I took LFI-2 in 2005. Part of that course is a block on weapon retention and disarming. I saw three Serpa holsters destroyed in two days during the weapon retention drills. That was enough for me, never mind the potential issues with an unintentional discharge.

[jetfire]

As a DOD civillian, I can vouch for this. Luckily for me we were given the option of a Safariland, which I took.

I love the Safariland, I just wish someone would teach the kids in tech school how to adjust the ride height correctly. If I had a dollar for every Security Forces dude I have seen/taught whose holster is riding on their knee, I wouldn’t need two jobs.

[Bigghoss]

I love the Safariland, I just wish someone would teach the kids in tech school how to adjust the ride height correctly. If I had a dollar for every Security Forces dude I have seen/taught whose holster is riding on their knee, I wouldn’t need two jobs.

OMG, YES!!!!! I can't tell you how many of the guys I work with have to lean to grab their pistol.

[jetfire]

OMG, YES!!!!! I can't tell you how many of the guys I work with have to lean to grab their pistol.

I have asked my leadership repeatedly to let me teach a “How to set up your drop leg so you don’t look like a retard” class, but every time the idea gets pitched to the squad leaders, they shoot it down.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I have asked my leadership repeatedly to let me teach a “How to set up your drop leg so you don’t look like a retard” class, but every time the idea gets pitched to the squad leaders, they shoot it down.

I think you mean, “Look like a GUNFIGHTER,” Caleb!

I use the DFA single strap with the fixed plastic loop attached, which makes the holster sit about 1.5” lower than my duty belt rig. Neither are particularly comfortable inside of a car for me.


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[JRB]

I love the Safariland, I just wish someone would teach the kids in tech school how to adjust the ride height correctly. If I had a dollar for every Security Forces dude I have seen/taught whose holster is riding on their knee, I wouldn’t need two jobs.

Same - I see SecFor at least twice a day, sometimes 4-6 times a day. The number of kneepad-height SERPA's and Safariland's I've seen is mind boggling. Same for the crossdraw-on-the-plate-carrier thing that smaller females especially seem to favor. Looks pretty ridiculous on a size S Crye JPC or IOTV.

It is an interesting litmus though. When I see a SecFor Airman with a properly adjusted Safariland on his/her thigh and his head on a swivel instead of BSing with the other guys at the gate, I make it a point to note his/her name & rank especially if they're an NCO.
So far I think that's happened maybe 5 times in the ~2 years I've been on this AFB.

[jetfire]

Same - I see SecFor at least twice a day, sometimes 4-6 times a day. The number of kneepad-height SERPA's and Safariland's I've seen is mind boggling. Same for the crossdraw-on-the-plate-carrier thing that smaller females especially seem to favor. Looks pretty ridiculous on a size S Crye JPC or IOTV.

It is an interesting litmus though. When I see a SecFor Airman with a properly adjusted Safariland on his/her thigh and his head on a swivel instead of BSing with the other guys at the gate, I make it a point to note his/her name & rank especially if they're an NCO.
So far I think that's happened maybe 5 times in the ~2 years I've been on this AFB.

I roll mine on an actual belt mount (which is authorized) that’s low enough to clear my armor.

[Hollander]

Serpa holsters are still issued and used by some of the major services (to include USMC). The thigh rig variant.

I've used one quite a bit.

Are they dangerous? Yes, potentially if you use the wrong technique to activate the release and compliment that bad technique with bad safety procedures. You're supposed to apply even pressure with the upper half of your index finger rather than pressing with the top pad of that finger (above the distal joint). The latter method definitely can lend itself to hooking into the trigger if you get sloppy.

But a lot of units have used them, both in training and in combat. The USMC put them through testing and evaluations at Quantico and found no serious safety or reliability issues. And while Serpa ND's seem to be a hot-topic among the civilian and competition communities, there really isn't much controversy attributed to it in the military. I think part of that comes down to weapons safety being much more heavily emphasized in the military setting, and as well pistols in general see far less employment and training emphasis as compared to rifles, generally speaking.

I guess what I find so interesting about the whole issue is that some people will get so hot and bothered about the safety concerns with a Serpa, but then think nothing of doing quick draws from an appendix IWB holster with a striker-fired pistol (w/ out safety). Simply by nature of where the muzzle is pointing, one holster method has the potential for much more severe consequences than the other.

Risk is relative, and in the case of the Serpa there certainly is some risk. But is it anything outrageous compared to some of the more popular carry methods out there?

[scw2]

Risk is relative, and in the case of the Serpa there certainly is some risk. But is it anything outrageous compared to some of the more popular carry methods out there?

I think a fair statement that we would all agree on would be that each method of carry or holster has a list of pros and cons versus other holsters or methods of carry. We can have a separate discussion of OWB vs IWB vs AIWB vs any other carry position, but for selecting a specific holster for a given method of carry, there are some holster design options that are better than others. For example, traditional hybrid holsters are arguably a bad option for AIWB versus purpose-built holsters.

For the mission set where a thigh-rig retention holster works well, I'd ask you what the benefit of the Serpa is over other holsters such as Safariland? What are the cons of the Serpa versus the same?

[BobLoblaw]

Simply by nature of where the muzzle is pointing, one holster method has the potential for much more severe consequences than the other.

Correct: trigger finger actuation of OWB retention holster pointed at your calf/foot vs "proper" AIWB holster (read: a holster that directs the muzzle away from your body).

Risk is relative, and in the case of the Serpa there certainly is some risk. But is it anything outrageous compared to some of the more popular carry methods out there?

Yes, it's the HIV+ $2 whore of the holster world. The only smart reason for owning one is to show others what not to buy.