Grip strength, how much is enough?

[SLG]

In my opinion, grip strength is hugely beneficial to shooting pistols well. Much has been said already and I don't have much more to contribute about that. Although, I will give you my two cents on overuse injures since that has come up several times now.

I'm an advocate of CoC grippers, however they WILL give you tendonitis if you use them incorrectly. I advise one set to failure with the heaviest gripper you can fully close 8-10 times.

If you use grippers on a regular basis you absolutely have to train your extensor muscles as well. If you don't you will have problems. Only training your crushing grip is like only training your biceps at the expense of your triceps. Not a good idea.

I don't think the expander bands work that well. I've been using a Sidewinder Xtreme #3 and I'm very impressed. It works [I]great[I] for toning your extensors.

In addition to CoC's and a Sidewinder I recommend farmer's walks with heavy kettlebells and wrist curls. Be sure to give your forearms a day to recover between workouts and whatever you do.... do not mindlessly click out high reps with grippers! That's how you get screwed up. Been there, done that.

By the way, I tend to think of friction as free grip strength. Regardless of your crushing strength, a solid thumbs forward grip combined with grip lotion and/or sandpaper will absolutely benefit your shooting.

Grip hard and prosper, my friends.

I'm unfamiliar with the sidewinder. How does it work extensors?

[YVK]

and I use the green Thera Band Flex Bar that I hear is for kids and geriatrics ...

Who'd say something like that?


I've recently read an opinion that CoC largely train a peak grip effort, i.e. squeeze-release strength. The author opined that it was not the type of exercise needed for shooting. He stated that static squeeze effort, i.e. continuous contraction, was needed for this purposes and advocated hanging from the bar for as long as one could do that, eventually graduating to one minute hang time on either hand. Thoughts?

[GunRacer]

http://www.sportgrips.com/productlineup.htm#proxtreme

You're basically wringing out the wet towel from Hell. Since the same level of spring resistance is maintained turning both directions, you work both sides of your forearms. Make sense?

[GunRacer]

Who'd say something like that?


I've recently read an opinion that CoC largely train a peak grip effort, i.e. squeeze-release strength. The author opined that it was not the type of exercise needed for shooting. He stated that static squeeze effort, i.e. continuous contraction, was needed for this purposes and advocated hanging from the bar for as long as one could do that, eventually graduating to one minute hang time on either hand. Thoughts?

I like farmer's walks for that. Also, I recommend releasing the gripper slowly because that helps prevent injury. Slow negatives with a heavier gripper work well too. That said, I think the person who posted that opinion is overthinking it.

[David S.]

There is another exercise that I remember reading about somewhere, maybe Enos Forum, that might be useful. Fill a 5 gallon, or whatever size bucket with rice and stick your hands in above your wrists and open and close. This will exercise both squeezing and extension muscles in a balanced way. It seems cheap and sensible enough.

Disclaimer: I read it on the Internet so it must be true.

[JHC]

Who'd say something like that?


I've recently read an opinion that CoC largely train a peak grip effort, i.e. squeeze-release strength. The author opined that it was not the type of exercise needed for shooting. He stated that static squeeze effort, i.e. continuous contraction, was needed for this purposes and advocated hanging from the bar for as long as one could do that, eventually graduating to one minute hang time on either hand. Thoughts?

I think the static squeeze training may have merit but IMO hanging from a bar might not be it. I can do all sorts of things hanging from a bar for a good spell with weight added etc and I cannot quite close a #1 and I don't think my recoil control is exceptional. However half or two thirds closing the #1 and holding that statically feels appropriate and is far harder than hanging on almost all bars I've hung from. I could be all screwed up there however.

However if one found a FAT bar that would be different. I mean to buy these fat bar sleeves you put on normal dumbells or barbells because "fat bar training" is also legendary for developing grip strength.

[SLG]

I think there are lots of good ways to train grip strength. The rice method is an old martial arts idea. Fat bars were used way back when as well. I'm sure all of them have benefits.

The CoC have become so popular because they are difficult and they are consistent, so you can measure and compete. You certainly don't need them to develop a strong grip. As far as them being less than ideal for shooting, that probably is overthinking it a bit, but I'd love for someone to really optimize a workout for shooting. In the meantime, I guess laying on the couch will have to do.

[SLG]

Funny timing on this thread. I was up very late last night dry firing and I fatigued my right forearm more than usual. Made practice today somewhat unpleasant and shorter than I intended.

Since I couldn't effectively draw anymore, I did a bunch of weakhand stuff. After that though, I went downstairs to the gym and pulled out my CoC. Hadn't used them in the last few months. They were harder to close than I remember! I have been just doing my usual crossfit and neglected the CoC. Lost some grip strength as a result. I can hang on a bar or a ring for quite a while with either hand, and always have been able to. Apparently that doesn't translate to the CoC though, so I'll need to incorprate them again.

As far as the fatigue issue with my right forearm, I find that at my age, I can no longer train with out a nice warmup. Even for shooting. Sad:-( I forgot to warm up last night and stretch, so I'll pay the price for a couple of days. That may have something to do with the reported CoC injuries as well.

[SLG]

http://www.sportgrips.com/productlineup.htm#proxtreme

You're basically wringing out the wet towel from Hell. Since the same level of spring resistance is maintained turning both directions, you work both sides of your forearms. Make sense?

I've been watching and reading everything I can on the sidewinder since yesterday and would like to get one. Can't figure if the bigger grip diameter would be good or bad. Any thoughts on the different models vis a vis hand size and grip development and injury?

[Chuck Whitlock]

Very interesting discussion.

Karl Rehn covered this issue at the 2014 Rangemaster Tactical Conference. His position was that the currently popular "thumbs forward" grip is highly reliant on strong crush strength in the support hand. (For this reason, the crossed thumbs grip that Cooper originally advocated, might be better for low grip strength shooters.)

That's interesting. About a year back on a thread here about folks preferred thumb position when shooting SHO/WHO the majority opinion seemed to be curl it down for strength and I'm found that to help SHO/WHO. Only stands to reason re freestyle too.

I find this highly intriguing, as I have seemed to notice more consistency in my grip with the Weaverish grip v. the thumbs forward. I haven't had the resources lately to get a data flow going.

Another often overlooked thing is pistol grip size. My 1911's wear standard grip bushings, but pretty thin VZ gips. Much thinner than the factory stocks. My Gen 4 G22 has no backstrap installed, and I'm convinced it is why I can shoot that gun as well as I can - much better than I ever shot the earlier Glocks.
Smaller stocks allow you to use more of your grip strength, which may be something to consider when choosing a weapon if you have compromised grip strength.

I know I've mentioned my small hand issues before. FWIW, on my gen3 G19, with my trigger finger in register, the pad of my trigger finger rests squarely on the takedown lever.

The benefit of the thumbs forward grip is that it gets maximum skin to gun contact, which leads to controlling the recoil through friction, and consistent and predictable movement of the gun in recoil since the gun's grip is fully surrounded with hands. The foundation of the grip is not dependent on a lot of strength, and I think more grip strength is going to help any grip, whether it is thumbs forward or crossed thumbs.

I've begun to notice lately that I seem to have less grip consistency with the thumbs forward, where the thumbs-locked-down SEEMS to let me grip the stocks more consistently. Again, I haven't been able to start collecting empirical data yet.

The small enough grip thing is interesting. In 2010 when I first started experimenting with adjustable grips on Gen 4s and a M&P I was pretty sure I shot the Large options better at first (Rather long fingers but not great crush strength)
Over time that didn't hold up and I have seen how fingers winching in closer to the palms keeps my grip anchored better for longer strings of fire. (Thank you PF btw)

Thanks p-f for the flow of info that at least supports the idea that I may not be a complete loon. I've been waiting on Ameriglo sights to come in for my M&P9fs before really wringing it out. Within the next few months I will be doing some instruction for a few of my wife's co-workers as well. My biggest take-away is to be open-minded and not dogmatic with this stuff.