SC police officer charged with murder

[RoyGBiv]

http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/03/st...to-shoot-white

[HCM]

I think that a brief recap of this year's events, including the shooting of a 12 years old kid

The shooting which is the topic of this thread appears to be a bad/unjustified shooting. There is no question about that given the available facts.

It has NOTHING to do with the shooting of Tamir Rice, which while tragic, was lawful, objectively reasonable and entirely caused by Rice's actions. Specifically police responding to a 911 call of someone in the park pointing a gun at people encounter Rice and order him to put his hands up. Instead Rice reaches into his waistband and comes up with an airsoft pistol with the orange safety tip removed and points it at the officers who then shoot Rice. Rice was shot because of what he did and what he failed to do.

In my world, unfortunately middle school age kids can pull a trigger and sometimes commit violent adult crimes. Maybe that is outside your experience but it is not outside mine or that of the other LEO's here. I don't care if you are a martian with green skin, pointing a weapon at a police officer is a recipe for getting shot.

[MDS]

We tend to eat, drink, sleep, marry, have sex and kill within our own race. It's a bit more biological than social IMO.

With respect, I couldn't disagree more strongly on the red part. The social part is so critical to our makeup - for the foreseeable future - that it's a distinction without (much of) a difference.

I'm honestly concerned with what society's going to look like in 50 or so years.

I hear you! At the same time, I don't think there's been a mature generation in history that wasn't concerned with what society's going to look like in 50 or so years.... I'm much more worried about the present.

[GardoneVT]

They recognize they are doing it for public safety, but it is a very real pattern in some jurisdictions. In other words, if the cop has a choice to pull over old white granny with a tail light out or black guy driving a Mercedes with a tail light out, which do you think he will do? Also, context makes a big difference, ESPECIALLY in South Carolina. If you are driving through the white part of town, and you are black or hispanic, you better be driving a lawn services truck, or a maid service vehicle or you will be scrutinized.

That is the social "cost of doing business."

If 67% of Pizza Hut's largest tippers were black, there wouldnt be a late pizza delivery in Harlem.

To illustrate the absurdity of the "OMGZ COPS BE PROFILIN " argument, a black Detroit MI drug dealer was interviewed on his routine recently.

He bitched to the reporter how inconvenient it was to have to use non-Detroit county Michigan tags for his suburban drug runs. The interviewer asked why that was.

"Cops be profilin'"...."they pull over my cars if they got Detroit tags.Its not fair, police shouldnt be profiling like that."

Uhh....'cuz', youre transporting narcotics! MAYBE THATS WHY THE SHERIFF KEEPS STOPPING 'DETROIT' COUNTY VEHICLES.

Naw,it cant be that.It must be some sort of national conspiracy to make every black man scared whenever he's pulled over.
.

[cpd2110]

I really appreciate this forum more and more. I looked at a few others and it is sad how many people want to give this officer an out. They invoke force science or say we didn't see the whole fight/struggle. Even some of the experts who I have great respect for on the other forums are holding back. I understand it, cops eat their own quickly, we don't like to be second guessed but I think we are our own worst enemies when we don't state the obvious, its a bad shoot. I appreciate Nyeti and Chuck saying it plain and clear, as well as others. Believe me, I bleed blue, been around policing with family or some other way since I was 4 years old. I'm always looking to give the officer the benefit of the doubt. Having said all that we also have to admit when something is F'd up, and this one is.

[Chuck Haggard]

If this shooting was within action/reaction time frames, say dude got Taser, dude drops Taser as he breaks the standing grapple as he is turning to run, but cops draws pistol to a high 2 and starts lighting guy up, then figures out later "Ooops, he dropped the Taser just before I shot him", I'd the first guy to be on his defense team and would do free expert witness work to get him off the hook.

That is NOT what we are talking about in this case.

[TGS]

While I certainly do not subscribe to the "always a victim" narrative, I find that racial bias is real and widespread.

Bias: that's probably bound to happen when a minority of the population commits the vast majority of violent crime.

The examples you're giving dont support your argument, though. Rice was a justified shooting by any standard, full stop, end of story, period. What other shootings in your year-in-review were questionable?

Just because a certain subset(s) of society think their actions should have no consequence does not mean the officer was quick to shoot or wrong. My cousin is in hot water right now because he used restraint and tried to control a suspect instead of just shooting him when the perp attacked him without provocation and tried disarming him. He used more restraint than he was legally obligated to, endangering the life of his K9 and another officer on scene. Yet, a certain subset of society is still saying he was wrong and brutally beat a man to death.

And then there's my fellow alumn who got shot in the face a few weeks ago for no good reason. But apparently the cops were still wrong for shooting the perp, as a subset of society thought they went to the gun too fast as "that's a handcuff situation."

And then there's Chris Deedy who has spent years embroiled in legal trouble because he has the fortitude and genetalia to do the right thing, but a subset of society wants to ruin his life for doing it.

[ASH556]

I just watched the shooting video again and I'd like feedback on this take:

The very instant that the camera gets onto the officer and Walter Scott, there is a black object on the ground at the officer's feet, Scott is turning to run, and the officer is drawing his pistol. You can clearly see lead wires from the Taser going over the officer's shoulder. Perhaps there was a struggle for the Taser that ended up with Scott shooting the Taser at the officer. At that point, is it not reasonable for the officer, when faced with being shot with his Taser to draw his next available weapon (pistol)?

Is it a bad shoot because he took so long to draw and fire the shots? What if instead of using the Taser Scott had slugged the officer in the face with his fist? Justified in drawing firing?

Since tone doesn't convey well in text-only format, let me clarify: I'm not trying to bait or cause issues. The above is a legitimate question.

[JHC]

Bias: that's probably bound to happen when a minority of the population commits the vast majority of violent crime.

The examples you're giving dont support your argument, though. Rice was a justified shooting by any standard, full stop, end of story, period. What other shootings in your year-in-review were questionable?

Just because a certain subset(s) of society think their actions should have no consequence does not mean the officer was quick to shoot or wrong. My cousin is in hot water right now because he used restraint and tried to control a suspect instead of just shooting him when the perp attacked him without provocation and tried disarming him. He used more restraint than he was legally obligated to, endangering the life of his K9 and another officer on scene. Yet, a certain subset of society is still saying he was wrong and brutally beat a man to death.

And then there's my fellow alumn who got shot in the face a few weeks ago for no good reason. But apparently the cops were still wrong for shooting the perp, as a subset of society thought they went to the gun too fast as "that's a handcuff situation."

And then there's Chris Deedy who has spent years embroiled in legal trouble because he has the fortitude and genetalia to do the right thing, but a subset of society wants to ruin his life for doing it.

That Chris Deedy story is unbelievable. I'd never heard of it before. Crimony.

[Chuck Haggard]

looseduke, please describe your personal experience/s with racial bias. Not some bullshit you heard, or something you saw on the internets, your first hand real world experience.

I can describe in detail numerous cases where I was the subject of racial epithets during my growing up years, both for being "white" and for being a "half-breed", and even more while working. I'm curious as to yours.

If you have no verifiable incidents, most especially involving the police, then you need to stop, immediately.