1911 Extractor Issue

[Gio]

I've got a 1911 that I am trying to setup for USPSA Single Stack (Dan Wesson in .45), and I had one malfunction a couple weeks ago where the spent casing from the last round in the magazine was extracted from the chamber and lodged in the magazine feed lips. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is caused by lack of extractor tension where the extracted casing slips down low during the extraction/ejection cycle?

After the malfunction occurred, I bent the extractor (by hand using one end locked in a vise) to increase tension, and until I saw a noticable increase in how firmly the extractor holds a .45 round against the breach face. I have also done the extractor test (fire one round with no magazine in gun) and still get a failure approximately 1 in 5-6 rounds where the spent casing is either stove piped in the ejection port or falls out through the mag well. With a full magazine in the gun, ejection is very consistent except for the last round in the mag, which could end up coming straight back at me, dribbling out of the gun, or getting launched 15 feet to the right...so while the gun hasn't malfunctioned again, it still needs some adjustment to be perfect. My question is what do I try next? Do I continue adding tension to the extractor or is there another issue that could be causing this? Thanks,

[Sigfan26]

I've got a 1911 that I am trying to setup for USPSA Single Stack (Dan Wesson in .45), and I had one malfunction a couple weeks ago where the spent casing from the last round in the magazine was extracted from the chamber and lodged in the magazine feed lips. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is caused by lack of extractor tension where the extracted casing slips down low during the extraction/ejection cycle?

After the malfunction occurred, I bent the extractor (by hand using one end locked in a vise) to increase tension, and until I saw a noticable increase in how firmly the extractor holds a .45 round against the breach face. I have also done the extractor test (fire one round with no magazine in gun) and still get a failure approximately 1 in 5-6 rounds where the spent casing is either stove piped in the ejection port or falls out through the mag well. With a full magazine in the gun, ejection is very consistent except for the last round in the mag, which could end up coming straight back at me, dribbling out of the gun, or getting launched 15 feet to the right...so while the gun hasn't malfunctioned again, it still needs some adjustment to be perfect. My question is what do I try next? Do I continue adding tension to the extractor or is there another issue that could be causing this? Thanks,

Is the gun all stock? Which model Dan Wesson? Also, what kind of mags?

[45dotACP]

Hilton Yam describes that jam somewhere on MSW...I'd get new mags (that jam typically ruins their feed lips anyways). Go with some CMC, Wilson, or Tripp mags. Seeing as you've started bending the extractor, I'd get a Weigand extractor tension gauge...because "Bend and Check" for all intents and purposes, is random.

[45dotACP]

I am wrong...it is a profound extractor failure.

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6311

[Jason Burton]

Let me preface my comments by saying that fixing guns over the internet is hard if not impossible... but here’s my $0.02 anyway...

What I would look at is two fold:

First, check to make sure the ejector is properly striking the cartridge case. To do this all you have to do is remove the barrel, bushing, and recoil assembly from the slide then insert a cartridge under the extractor until it is at the top of the breech-face. Then put the slide back on the frame and run it all the way to the rear – the ejector should strike and eject the case.

Second, check how the extractor hook contacts and interacts with the cartridge rim as well as how much engagement the extractor has when the barrel links down. There are quite a few things to look for here and unfortunately without photos a bunch of wordy text may not make any sense. At a minimum, a live case needs to sit flat against the breech face and not be “pushed” off by the extractor and the extractor needs to have enough range of motion to hold onto the cartridge during link down.

If you have already added tension to the extractor and you are still experiencing a problem then I doubt adding more tension is going to help anything.

There are quite a few variables at play when working with or fitting an extractor. Provided the extractor has even marginal tension, its relationship to the cartridge rim and breech-face as well as the range of motion that the extractor is allowed are even more important.

[Gio]

Jason,

Thanks for the response. With the barrel and recoil spring removed, the ejector does contact the casing and eject it from the gun.

I will try to get some detailed pictures of the engagement/contact between the extractor and a casing. A live round does appear to sit flat against the breach face. What am I looking for during the barrel link down? With a live round in the chamber, as I retract the slide slowly, the round "sags" nose down after it leaves the chamber and before it contacts the ejector. It does not stay flat against the breach face...should it? I'll try to post a lot of pictures in the morning.

[SLG]

givo08,

I'm sorry to say, but Jason has steered you wrong. What he meant to say was, "Why are you shooting a DW instead of one of your SA Pro Operators?" :-)

[Wayne Dobbs]

I would start with a new, high quality extractor and start over. I think that one is done. Welcome to the world of 1911 witchcraft and magic.

[Gio]

givo08,

I'm sorry to say, but Jason has steered you wrong. What he meant to say was, "Why are you shooting a DW instead of one of your SA Pro Operators?" :-)

That would be the easy solution , but i'm trying to keep the mileage lower on those and put the high volume round count and dry firing through the DW...

I compared the extractor engagement with an SA Pro this morning that has been flawless and passes the no-mag in gun extractor test. On second look, the DW does hold the casing/live round slightly off of the breach face creating a small gap between the breach face and the round. If I push the round flush against the breach face and let go, the extractor will push the casing back off to create that gap again.

In contrast, I can put a round under the extractor on the SA Pro and push it flush against the breach face and it will stay there.

With a live round in the DW, when the barrel links down, the round will nose down slightly after clearing the chamber. If you drew an axis horizontally through the center of the round from the extractor, it looks like it is pivoting down around this axis because of that gap described above.

Comparing that to the SA Pro when the barrel links down, the round also noses down but much less perceptibly. It seems to maintain more contact with the breach face at this point and has room to move.

By my own subjective feel, extractor tension seems nearly identical between the two guns.

I took some detailed pictures of all of this and will post them when I get to a computer tonight.

[Jason Burton]

Wait... you have a Pro Model you could be shooting? Why are we even messing around?

Seriously though... photos may indeed help and are worth a look but as I said before it’s likely not a tension issue and has more to do with how and where the extractor contacts the cartridge.