trigger finger safety

[Dagga Boy]

Here's the thing though: You don't have to pick one. Being very skilled and fast are not at odds with the gunhandling that you emphasize. I've been doing all those things you mention with my students for a long time. And pushing their technical skills too.

I sort of agree. Skilled and fast are not at odds. So we agree. At a certain point, the best folks in the world at working against a timer seem to need to get on the trigger as the muzzle clears the holster. In several venues it is what is required to be competitive and to break certain time standards. If that is the venue you want to excel in, no problem. The choice comes when it comes to picking what you are most interested in. I didn't make this up, it is what is coming from the technical masters of a variety of shooting sports. Those of us from the purely defensive side of the fence have seen tons of failures related to this practice, so we try to train around that for our venue. Simple. When it gets complicated is when we are mixing two very different things. Much of that difference is due to what is going on right before the draw commences, and what is taking up he brains priorities when task stacking.

[cclaxton]

http://www.odmp.org/officer/22457-po...-jared-forsyth
Somebody didn't follow the four rules.
RIP
Cody

[jbg270]

Clean lines means no wasted movement or motion. It means moving the gun (or support equipment) in as straight a line as possible during manipulations. It means keeping trigger fingers in register until all three requirements of Rule 3 are met. It means not muscling, jamming or forcing the gun in an effort to be fast. It adds up to efficiency, safety and really usable and beneficial speed during the use of your weapons.

Thanks!

[Dagga Boy]

[img]00001 by OrigamiAK, on Flickr[/img]

I think this is too early. What do you guys think?

Depends......what is the goal? What is the venue? My world, too early. Other places.....perfect (and that was not being a smart ass, just so it doesn't get taken wrong on Facebook). Simply a choice.

[Dagga Boy]

Wayne, could you please explain "clean lines"?

Here is a photo of a guy who is my "clean lines" mentor. I have talked to a witness to one of his many shootings who was flat awed by his level of efficiency at shooting a felon from the preparation for the raid in the back of a vehicle to post shooting. It is what we strive for.

[Wayne Dobbs]

That's an ND looking for a time and place to happen. It's one of those shots by (or in) the strong foot in an encounter...

And Mr. White, you have now proven what happens when you make speed or timers your main goal!

[Mr_White]

Sounds great...what's your method? Thanks

Would you say your teaching methods and material is vastly different than the brunt of the stuff out there these days or just slight changes?

Not sure I could really say what all is out there, but there are some things that we have done for a long time, that are many of the same things nyeti quite rightly talks about, just with what I think is an additional emphasis on technical skills. I am quite certain that at least some other people know about this. How widespread it is I could not say. But in my view (and I think I am agreeing with nyeti on this point) it is absolutely critical that the students understand and train in accordance with this stuff, or else they are at an increased risk of NDs and/or not acting as effectively as they could be.

It starts with a definition of when to put finger on the trigger - when muzzle is aligned, and a conscious decision to fire has been made. I also liked Chuck Haggard's recent phrasing of it ("keep the trigger finger at a point of positive reference until the decision to fire is made AND you are moving the gun into position to shoot.")

It takes extremely persistent enforcement in class. Big emphasis on this at the beginning of a person's training pays a lot of dividends down the line as things become more complex and technical skills get pushed.

The students need to grasp this essential concept: before you can shoot, you have to decide to shoot. Before you can decide to shoot, you need to see something that tells you it is time to shoot. This requires unobstructed vision. Unobstructed vision partly dictates ready positions. The time to present from a ready position or the holster allows the finger to be in register until the gun is actually being presented with a decision to fire having already been made. That way neither safety nor time are left on the table. This orderly process is the bridge from correct evaluation and decisionmaking to efficient action.

Just as nyeti said, not every presentation leads to a shot. Students draw to a vision-unobstructed ready position with finger in register, intermixed with draws to a shot. They draw to ready and give verbal commands. They acquire master grip and verbalize but don't draw. They put their hands out in the universal sign for 'stay back' and verbalize, but don't touch the gun. Then sometimes they draw from there. They shoot, then reload and shoot, and sometimes they shoot, then reload and come to ready and verbalize, or clear a malfunction and come to ready and verbalize. Sometimes they begin a trigger press, then stop pressing the trigger as if the situation has changed and they no longer wish to fire and then come to ready and verbalize, or move to improve a shot angle and then resume firing. Lots of possibilities there, those are just some of the big ones.

You can do all of the above, and also work on speed of presentation from ready and holster, and accuracy at speed in shooting. That's where you want to be - a very clean and correct tactical process, coupled with physical efficiency in gunhandling and shooting. You can follow that process and still make sub .5 second hits to A-zones at 7 yards from the ready, and 1.5 second hits from the concealed holster.

I strongly suspect that a lack of familiarity and deep confidence in the ability to quickly and accurately present from a ready position drives many people to prematurely get their finger on the trigger (gaining nothing, but radically increasing risk of ND) and/or obstruct their vision by getting on sights before the decision to fire has been made (ironically likely to slow their overall engagement process.) I believe lack of confidence in a clean ready position engagement process is one of the roots of trigger checking.

All that takes a lot of work over time on the part of instructors and students, but it is doable.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Masterfully written...

[Chuck Haggard]

Not sure I could really say what all is out there, but there are some things that we have done for a long time, that are many of the same things nyeti quite rightly talks about, just with what I think is an additional emphasis on technical skills. I am quite certain that at least some other people know about this. How widespread it is I could not say. But in my view (and I think I am agreeing with nyeti on this point) it is absolutely critical that the students understand and train in accordance with this stuff, or else they are at an increased risk of NDs and/or not acting as effectively as they could be.

It starts with a definition of when to put finger on the trigger - when muzzle is aligned, and a conscious decision to fire has been made. I also liked Chuck Haggard's recent phrasing of it ("keep the trigger finger at a point of positive reference until the decision to fire is made AND you are moving the gun into position to shoot.")

It takes extremely persistent enforcement in class. Big emphasis on this at the beginning of a person's training pays a lot of dividends down the line as things become more complex and technical skills get pushed.

The students need to grasp this essential concept: before you can shoot, you have to decide to shoot. Before you can decide to shoot, you need to see something that tells you it is time to shoot. This requires unobstructed vision. Unobstructed vision partly dictates ready positions. The time to present from a ready position or the holster allows the finger to be in register until the gun is actually being presented with a decision to fire having already been made. That way neither safety nor time are left on the table. This orderly process is the bridge from correct evaluation and decisionmaking to efficient action.

Just as nyeti said, not every presentation leads to a shot. Students draw to a vision-unobstructed ready position with finger in register, intermixed with draws to a shot. They draw to ready and give verbal commands. They acquire master grip and verbalize but don't draw. They put their hands out in the universal sign for 'stay back' and verbalize, but don't touch the gun. Then sometimes they draw from there. They shoot, then reload and shoot, and sometimes they shoot, then reload and come to ready and verbalize, or clear a malfunction and come to ready and verbalize. Sometimes they begin a trigger press, then stop pressing the trigger as if the situation has changed and they no longer wish to fire and then come to ready and verbalize, or move to improve a shot angle and then resume firing. Lots of possibilities there, those are just some of the big ones.

You can do all of the above, and also work on speed of presentation from ready and holster, and accuracy at speed in shooting. That's where you want to be - a very clean and correct tactical process, coupled with physical efficiency in gunhandling and shooting. You can follow that process and still make sub .5 second hits to A-zones at 7 yards from the ready, and 1.5 second hits from the concealed holster.

I strongly suspect that a lack of familiarity and deep confidence in the ability to quickly and accurately present from a ready position drives many people to prematurely get their finger on the trigger (gaining nothing, but radically increasing risk of ND) and/or obstruct their vision by getting on sights before the decision to fire has been made (ironically likely to slow their overall engagement process.) I believe lack of confidence in a clean ready position engagement process is one of the roots of trigger checking.

All that takes a lot of work over time on the part of instructors and students, but it is doable.

Well stated.

I agree with the training aspects, it takes work, and most people do not, in the words of Paul Sharp "Do the work".

It took me a couple of years to get the bad habits our troops had mostly trained out, and we had to work on those basics every time we trained. People who lack confidence will in fact try to cheat how they do things, which leads to all of those unfortunate bangs when they were in no way appropriate.

[Redhat]

Well stated.

I agree with the training aspects, it takes work, and most people do not, in the words of Paul Sharp "Do the work".

It took me a couple of years to get the bad habits our troops had mostly trained out, and we had to work on those basics every time we trained. People who lack confidence will in fact try to cheat how they do things, which leads to all of those unfortunate bangs when they were in no way appropriate.

Mr. White, thanks for taking the time to break it down a bit.

I also think that a lot of the "failings" have to do with available training time, lack of understanding, and emphasizing only time limits (drawing, shooting, hits on target) and not on this stuff. If a troop knows they MUST qualify then they may feel the need to cheat...IMO, this is why instructor led structured practice can pay off. If it's done with the goal of meeting the time limits AND doing things right, then qual time doesn't become a crisis situation because they've done it before many times in practice and have that confidence you mentioned.