trigger finger safety

[breakingtime91]

doing a split off of the competition thread discussion of safety.

So is it a detriment to get on the trigger later then sooner?


My opinion is no, since I have managed more threats then I have shot. I stated earlier that I did a lot of searching/detaining of people and one of the biggest things I stressed was safety and full extension of trigger finger.. Why? Enough can change in a situation from when you take a weapon off safe/put your finger in the trigger for a GOOD shoot to become a BAD shoot. I know some will say that will potentially get you or someone else killed, I would argue that it is a compromise of averages. I gave more people the front site post then I ever engaged so it seemed better to give myself a barrier between don't shoot/shoot. It only takes one stupid decision to ruin your life. I am trying to find the video of the officer who is covering a suspect being cuffed when she NDs her Glock into him, pretty good example of what I am talking about.


*Mods, if this is in the wrong area I apologize.


edit:It looks like a Beretta?

[JV_]

This one:

[60167]

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. You are risking too much by doing otherwise.

[Chuck Haggard]

I teach keep the trigger finger at a point of positive reference until the decision to fire is made AND you are moving the gun into position to shoot. I won't say "sights on target" because you might be shooting from retention.

IMHO, cops point guns at WAY too many people they shouldn't be pointing guns at, trigger finger is a sketchy safety, muzzle control should be thrown in as well.

[breakingtime91]

I teach keep the trigger finger at a point of positive reference until the decision to fire is made AND you are moving the gun into position to shoot. I won't say "sights on target" because you might be shooting from retention.

IMHO, cops point guns at WAY too many people they shouldn't be pointing guns at, trigger finger is a sketchy safety, muzzle control should be thrown in as well.

Agreed chuck. we also only ever pointed our weapons when deemed necessary (hostile actions or spiddy senses)

[Mr_White]

I teach keep the trigger finger at a point of positive reference until the decision to fire is made AND you are moving the gun into position to shoot. I won't say "sights on target" because you might be shooting from retention.

I think that's good way to phrase it Chuck. The 'seeing sights on target' part is an important distinction as well that I think gets lost in the way I frequently see it expressed.

[jetfire]

I think that's good way to phrase it Chuck. The 'seeing sights on target' part is an important distinction as well that I think gets lost in the way I frequently see it expressed.

Yeah, I'll have to jump on the "decision to fire" bandwagon myself too. One, because there are photos of me getting my finger on a revolver trigger when there's literally no way I could see the sights, and two because I can think of multiple times in a single match where I've shot stuff from a rough index position and didn't even bother with the sights at all.

[Mr_White]

The big problem with taking the hardline position that it's not ok to put your finger on the trigger until you have visually verified sights on target is that it ignores both retention, and shooting from some intermediary position like the #3, where there is kinesthetic or coarsely visually verified aiming going on, or a combination of the two, which can be very reasonable under some circumstances. I think there has to be room for other ways of knowing the gun is in alignment with the target than only seeing the sights and I am not a fan of carving out an ideological position that excludes those other ways of knowing.

Another fine distinction that gets lost in these discussions is the issue of the timeline of taking the finger out of register vs. actively manipulating the trigger. It takes time to move the finger from register to the trigger, then it takes more time to press the trigger. In the case of a very efficient draw, I think a finger can leave register before the two hands have joined, not actually touch the trigger until after the hands have joined, and only be actively pressing the trigger very near to the end of the stroke when there has been more visual verification of gun-target alignment. I said stroke.

And I think safety principle number four has a big role to play here. The classic hostage shot may demand that the gun be on target and stopped before the finger leaves the register position, but if it's you, the other guy a few yards away, and a brick wall behind him, firing before the gun settles out of motion may be a good idea.

[Clobbersaurus]

I think Nyeti said he teaches a "feel steel" register position which is what I use with Beretta's. With Glocks and 1911's I use an ejection port register. GJM once commented to me that there is no way these register positions are as fast as a trigger guard or frame register, which I have tested on my own and have found to be false. But maybe my draw speed is too slow, and that is coloring my own experience.

Also, for me, a slide or ejection port register, out of the holster, makes it much harder for me to get on the trigger before I hit the end of my draw stroke. At the speeds I dry fire at (1.3 seconds draw and fire to low % target from concealed), I find it very hard to get on the trigger sooner than when I have made the decision to fire and am aligning my sights.

If I am really pushing time and going for an under one second concealed draw, the movement is so fast that I barely have conscious decision of when my trigger finger is moving off register. I have very poor quality dry fire video of myself doing sub one second draws from concealment and it looks like I'm just coming off register as my hands meet and start my press out. This is not something I do on the range, because: too fast for my ability.

[jetfire]

You mean to say that shooting, whether for tactical or competition purposes, is a dynamic activity and applying dogmatic interpretations of basic safety rules isn't always the best answer?

SAY IT AIN'T SO, BRAH