Discuss: Safety

[BaiHu]

Changing the rule to the way you seem to want it would require an exemption for paddle mag release pistols, like recent Walther & HK offerings, so that their users could reload while moving without being in violation. (I use my trigger finger to actuate that type of mag release.)

Even absent that concern, I agree with you that enforcement would be problematic at best. I've seen ROs miss calls like that before, usually due to viewing angles where I could see it happening and they couldn't. At least once, it was a new shooter running with his finger inside the trigger guard, so I gently mentioned to him after his run that he had been doing it and that he would probably want to be careful to avoid it in the future. Thankfully, he either took it well or just didn't feel like starting a fight about it.

Regarding the picture Todd started the thread with, I think it's hard to come to any definitive conclusions without another angle, or at least a course diagram with his position marked on it. As it is, we really can't see what's in front of the shooter. As others have said, he may driving the gun toward a target that's visible just past the edge of the barrier.

As an HK shooter, I should've thought about that, but aren't you muzzle skyward and at slidelock when most reload? I know, stage planning and all but....these are things your RSO should know when you step up to the COF, right? Meaning NOTE: this guy has a paddle mag release gun.

Wow.

Here's what I can tell from that one frame: his finger is on the trigger while his sights aren't on the target.

For everyone who is justifying this because: game, all that does is reinforce the idea that these games are giving up cardinal safety procedures for the sake of speed & fun.

^^ This, which is why I brought up the car analogy. Why are we taking a ragged thin edge experience (specifically race guns) and making it a bit more "edgy" with hair triggers and "meh" attitude towards the 4 rules of safe gun handling?

[jetfire]

What are the odds he was called?

What are the odds his safety is on?

What are the odds his trigger weighs more than 2.5#?

Zero.
Zero.
Zero.

I don't understand how this thread is so long.

[Mr_White]

What are the odds he was called?

What are the odds his safety is on?

What are the odds his trigger weighs more than 2.5#?

Is there a video of this person shooting this stage, or a still photo of him firing the gun subsequent to the one posted?

[ToddG]

I have no idea. This photo was on a manufacturer's website promoting a product. "Safe gun handling" is clearly not the product.

[nwhpfan]

Can't tell from the angle....

If the gun is pointed at the wall, it is unsafe and DQ.

If the gun is away from the wall and moving to a target; not a DQ per USPSA rules.

The later is a question of being early on the trigger.

USPSA the rules are about the finger being in the trigger guard - it doesn't have to be "on" the trigger.

[olstyn]

As an HK shooter, I should've thought about that, but aren't you muzzle skyward and at slidelock when most reload?

Muzzle skyward, sure, but almost never at slidelock; in USPSA, if you're reloading at slidelock, it usually means you've screwed up your stage plan and/or had to take extra shots due to misses, which amounts to the same thing. Target arrays tend to need between 4 and 8 shots per, and production guns are allowed to hold 10+1. As a result, it's quite common to drop partial mags while running between arrays.

[rdtompki]

....
Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets,all movement must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the external safety should be applied. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction.....

If this is true in IPSC/USPSA does the requirement to engage the external safety when not aiming/shooting cross over to the one steel challenge stage that requires movement? Not a bad idea.

[Dagga Boy]

As I have said before, the only rule I have seen taken seriously in the competitive arena is not breaking the 180. Anything else is pretty much voluntary on the part of the shooter. It no longer bothers me as I shoot very little competition and the one venue I am shooting is low risk for me and I voluntarily choose to utilize non-range safety protocols. Most others don't. I just wish folks would quit pretending and just say "don't break the 180 and don't shoot yourself".

[Trooper224]

Go ahead and try to excuse it with all the gamer rules you want folks. The fact is this: at that moment he's not actively shooting his space gun and his finger's on the trigger, or so close as to amount to the same thing..........F-A-I-L.

[BaiHu]

Muzzle skyward, sure, but almost never at slidelock; in USPSA, if you're reloading at slidelock, it usually means you've screwed up your stage plan and/or had to take extra shots due to misses, which amounts to the same thing. Target arrays tend to need between 4 and 8 shots per, and production guns are allowed to hold 10+1. As a result, it's quite common to drop partial mags while running between arrays.

Gamer I is not. Obviously [emoji12]