Discuss: Safety

[mikeg]

Ya, I admit context is everything. And also sorry Tom, I'll try better to keep it on topic.

That is why this thread is beyond stupid (sorry mods, it really is) someone took an "in the moment" picture of a guy who is about to blaze a very close (12 yard full size popper). Guy is shooting a sport that relies on being fast, you're not going to be get in position, get on target, start aiming, start prepping the trigger, separately... its all going to happen at the same time because the whole action is going to take a fraction of a second. That stage was 14 shot where the top guy completed it (with draw, movement, etc.) in under 7 seconds.

[breakingtime91]

That is why this thread is beyond stupid (sorry mods, it really is) someone took an "in the moment" picture of a guy who is about to blaze a very close (12 yard full size popper). Guy is shooting a sport that relies on being fast, you're not going to be get in position, get on target, start aiming, start prepping the trigger, separately... its all going to happen at the same time because the whole action is going to take a fraction of a second. That stage was 14 shot where the top guy completed it (with draw, movement, etc.) in under 7 seconds.

would it be alright if we continued the discussion from a general stand point? Not just from that pic? I think this thread could be interesting .

[mikeg]

would it be alright if we continued the discussion from a general stand point? Not just from that pic? I think this thread could be interesting .

What discussion is that?

[breakingtime91]

so in general when do you think it is okay to get on/off the trigger?

[SLG]

Tom, you make the rules here, but I think when and how to put the finger on the trigger is a very interesting discussion that dovetails with competition and the streets.

...and the less likely you are to experience anticipation, which can lead to missed shots. So, later = more safe, more accurate.

GJM,

Though I quote Rob for all sorts of stuff, I cannot agree with the above. That is really only true when you shoot sub 2 pound triggers and are a high level shooter. None of the guys who actually do hostage rescue do it that way, because real guns (as opposed to guns designed for games) have much heavier, longer triggers. Actually, what I should say is that none of the guys who actually do it, and who shoot well, do it that way. IME, later leads to more anticipation, and more missed shots. The best USPSA shooters are some of the best shooters on the planet. The ones who can also shoot Bianchi at a high level are even better. However, I have found that if you want to stereotype them in anyway, they tend to stray outside their lane more than most. High level competition shooting only somewhat touches high level tactical shooting, and mistaking ability in one for ability in another usually leads to problems.

Of course, some of them have migrated to gamer type triggers, so I suppose I shouldn't group everyone in the community together.

[GJM]

GJM,

Though I quote Rob for all sorts of stuff, I cannot agree with the above. That is really only true when you shoot sub 2 pound triggers and are a high level shooter. Non of the guys who actually do hostage rescue do it that way, because real guns (as opposed to guns designed for games) have much heavier, longer triggers. Actually, what I should say is that non of the guys who actually do it, and who shoot well, do it that way. IME, later leads to more anticipation, and more missed shots. The best USPSA shooters are some of the best shooters on the planet. The ones who can also shoot Bianchi at a high level are even better. However, I have found that if you want to stereotype them in anyway, they tend to stray outside their lane more than most. High level competition shooting only somewhat touches high level tactical shooting, and mistaking ability in one for ability in another usually leads to problems.

I think this would be a very interesting discussion, and would like to participate in it. Mr_White and I were discussing it just a few hours ago. However, I think Tom wants it in another thread. Will you start it?

[breakingtime91]

I think this would be a very interesting discussion, and would like to participate in it. Mr_White and I were discussing it just a few hours ago. However, I think Tom wants it in another thread. Will you start it?

^ what he said.

[ToddG]

Yes, it was quite the troll

No. Believe it or not, some of us express opinions with the desire to have discussion and not just behave like numbskulls trolls. But you go ahead and play it your way.

[GJM]

GJM,

Though I quote Rob for all sorts of stuff, I cannot agree with the above.

Just to clarify, this wasn't from TGO. I figured this out months before I trained with Robbie. Surf will remember all to well my numerous posts on getting in the trigger later, and working it in one continuous motion. I believe in it so much, when I am shooting harder one hand shots like an 8 inch steel at 20 or further, I don't prep between shots at all, but rather work the whole amount of travel in one continuous motion, as I do on the draw freestyle.

[cclaxton]

Todd's post is asking a question...NOT about the safety of shooting sports, but he is asking to what extent these habits degrade our safe gun handling habits beyond the competitive COF?

"For everyone who is justifying this because: game, all that does is reinforce the idea that these games are giving up cardinal safety procedures for the sake of speed & fun."

Let's accept that this shooter didn't violate any safety rule under USPSA rules. But the question still remains whether these habits are compromising core safety practices?

To those who have posted that "we are all guilty of doing this..." therefore we shouldn't beat up this guy....that still doesn't make it right. We are not here to excoriate this shooter in the picture. We are here to ask whether we are compromising our core safety procedures.

I will put my opinion out there: Competition shooting is one of the most public things done by firearms owners. When we see someone with their finger indexed on the frame, such as the IDPA shooter in the African Mall incident, we crow about how good we are at safety. That is the way the public should see us. When we don't "appear" to be safe, it is a bad image and bad PR for the sport. It makes us look unprofessional. And, then when we defend it...we have the appearance of "trigger happy" gun owners. And, it serves as a poor example for new shooters. How do I get new shooters to keep their fingers off the trigger if they see people like this guy potentially violating the rule?

I am very proud that we keep shooting sports safe, and except for very rare cases, we operate safely. But that doesn't excuse us from being good role models. Maybe this particular shooter was just caught on film at the wrong time and watching a video would convince us of that. But let's not forget how critical safety is and the "appearance" of being safe is just as crucial.
Cody