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Thread: Discuss: Safety

  1. #31
    Site Supporter cclaxton's Avatar
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    In USPSA: "8.5 Movement8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The handgun must be pointed in a safe direction."

    Does this mean a competitor can be DQ'd for not engaging a safety while moving from one target to another? It uses the word "should." Does that make it unenforceable?
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    It uses the word "should." Does that make it unenforceable?
    Yes. I've always assumed they did that for liability purposes because NROI/USPSA BoD knows that is actually considered to be "best practice" in the industry, but it's also extremely difficult to enforce.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Slavex View Post
    In some countries we have to reload with the muzzle flat, can't point over berms, even at slidelock, or else it's a DQ, other countries it doesn't matter.
    I had a RO that came to Frostproof for the World Shoot yell at me about my muzzle up reloads. When there was no such rule authorized for the range.

    As far as the photo, I agree with others context is important for all we know he is getting on the trigger as he is aligning to the target, the same way that I would do it on a production gun.

    I will admit, it is hard to see finger violations that don't involve a reload or long stage movement. But based on what I see at average gun range, the safety at USPSA/IPSC events is heads and tails better than the safety of the average gun owner. Even more so when you consider how often, and how we handle our guns.

  4. #34
    Site Supporter cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPGMD View Post
    I had a RO that came to Frostproof for the World Shoot yell at me about my muzzle up reloads. When there was no such rule authorized for the range.

    As far as the photo, I agree with others context is important for all we know he is getting on the trigger as he is aligning to the target, the same way that I would do it on a production gun.

    I will admit, it is hard to see finger violations that don't involve a reload or long stage movement. But based on what I see at average gun range, the safety at USPSA/IPSC events is heads and tails better than the safety of the average gun owner. Even more so when you consider how often, and how we handle our guns.
    So, would you feel unfairly judged if someone called Finger on you and you were DQ'd while doing this move?

    It still seems to me to be just as fast to have good finger discipline. But I am not a master shooter, either.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  5. #35
    Seems to me this shooter has planted his outside foot and is presenting the gun to a target. The gun is going to be aimed and a shot squeezed off within a few tenths of a second from when this photo was taken. The decision has already been made to shoot. He's not room clearing in a hostage situation here...
    Last edited by Tom_Jones; 04-02-2015 at 11:05 AM.

  6. #36
    Site Supporter cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
    Seems to me this shooter has planted his outside foot and is presenting the gun to a target. The gun is going to be aimed and a shot squeezed off within a few tenths of a second from when this photo was taken. The decision has already been made to shoot. He's not room clearing in a hostage situation here...
    does TPOG not engage the trigger shortly after the nose pick stage of the press out?
    I would agree with you if it were not for the muzzle being tilted up. The upward tilted muzzle with a finger on the trigger is a big no-no at every range I know.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    I would agree with you if it were not for the muzzle being tilted up. The upward tilted muzzle with a finger on the trigger is a big no-no at every range I know.
    Cody
    Completely agree. This guy and anyone like him should be eliminated from our ranks.




  8. #38
    Site Supporter BaiHu's Avatar
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    I think what Cody is saying is that the muzzle is up, finger on trigger and no eyes on sights in the photo that started this thread. Todd obviously has eyes on at least the front sight here.
    Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.

  9. #39
    Site Supporter cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
    Completely agree. This guy and anyone like him should be eliminated from our ranks.



    I don't think this is the same thing. This appears to be the shooter in-between shots with recoil pushing the muzzle up, or in the middle of pushing out with eyes on sights. There is a difference. The guy in the picture is not shooting. There are plenty of pictures of people with their fingers on the trigger while shooting...the issue is when they are not.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    I don't think this is the same thing. This appears to be the shooter in-between shots, with recoil pushing the muzzle up.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzZBiYV4vk4&t=15

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