Is there a limit to how many guns you can sell without an FFL? Obviously if you are acting like a business, buying and selling for profit, etc you need an FFL.
What I am talking about is buying a gun and selling it or trading it, most often for a loss in both cases, to create funds for a new purchase.
Whenever I have sold a gun, I always did it through an FFL dealer, which meant I lost even more money.
I have always been curious about this.
Last edited by TheNewbie; 10-13-2017 at 12:23 AM.
I'm not sure there is a defined number of sales to be considered a "dealer". Like you said, if you quack like a duck...
Last edited by Rich@CCC; 10-13-2017 at 07:27 AM.
TANSTAAFL
Managing Partner, Custom Carry Concepts, LLC
I don't know about "normal" guns, but the Type 3 FFL (C&R) allows you to sell guns out of your collection to improve the collection, but not as a source of income. There too, it does not provide a number. Out of my own experiences, I've sold guns as much as 3-4 times a year without any issue. Like yourself, it was always to raise funds for other guns or to improve my collection, not as income.
I wouldn't get concerned unless you're selling multiple guns a month consistently over an extended period of time.
Chris
The nearly meaningless "guidance" that was issued by Obama's ATF essentially says that if they decide you're a dealer, they'll prosecute you as one. The criteria is, are you dedicating time and attention to making a profit? It's not clear that actually realizing a profit is necessary. As such, one sale is sufficient to satisfy the points of law if it was engaged in for the purpose of making a profit. On the other hand, if you are selling at a loss to free up funds for a new purchase, that should be pretty easy to document. They also make clear that there is room to downsize a collection just because you've decided to do so.
IANAL.
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Not another dime.
I think you’re also providing yourself a measure of “good faith” cover if you’re transferring things through a dealer or trading them in, as opposed to them being able to look at the classifieds on your local gun form and see that you always have 3 guns listed at any given time and/or you’re setting up tables at a gun show.
--Josh
“Formerly we suffered from crimes; now we suffer from laws.” - Tacitus.
I was told 10 guns a year one time. By whom? A gun shop employee, so I knew that was not accurate. Of course I've never been able to afford even owning that many at one time.
The last time I spoke to an ATF agent about this. I was basically told, "Buying and selling guns expressly for profit" would get their attention as a potential dealer. The agent made it clear that if you owned a gun for years and it appreciated in value and you sold it that this isn't likely to be determined "expressly for profit" (unless you are specifically speculating on guns).
It wasn't really a volume discussion, some guys buy/sell/trade monthly or weekly. It was much more about whether or not your were explicitly buying and building an inventory to resale for profit (i.e., to earn income). We all know those guys who buy and sell at gunshows/swap meets/etc and they always have new guns and always seem ready to buy and sell. Those guys are the ones the ATF is targeting as potential dealers. If you're selling a few guns now and then, even locally, but you use the money to buy more guns? You're not trying to earn a profit or income from your sales, then you aren't likely to be targeted as an unlicensed dealer.
In my experience, even though the ATF could try to prosecute you for being an unlicensed dealer, because you sold a gun for a profit one time and thus they "said so". Most US ADAs will not try cases that aren't a clear slam dunk in this realm. Targeting Joe Bob the gun collector who trades guns to his friends and buys new ones for himself isn't worth the money. Imagine the testimony, "Mr. Joe Bob, did you sell a gun to Hairy Chuck?" "Hairy Chuck? Yea. He's a good friend, had a concealed carry license for 20-years. We go fishing once a month and shooting twice a month. I sold him this Sig I bought on a whim that I didn't like shooting."
Vs. Targeting Larry the Kitchen Table Dealer who buys constantly and sells, virtually indiscriminately to anyone with cash to pay his bills? "Mr. Larry did you sell a Raven .25 caliber to Ray-Ray the Gangbanger from Humboldt Park Chicago?" "Which Raven .25 was that? And which one is Ray-Ray?" - That's the guy they want.
We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.
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