It would be pretty funny if every gun submitted got some auto forwarding instances.
It would be pretty funny if every gun submitted got some auto forwarding instances.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
What a curious requirement to include, eh?Originally Posted by JHC
I found this more interesting.
"3.21.6 It is desired the frame be constructed with passive round count capability".
Desired, not required. It would help us keep up with preventive maintenance for sure....
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
All ICE /HSI Officers and Agents are plainclothes unless you're counting 5.11's and a polo shirt as a uniform. They don't normally work at checkpoints or ports of entry.The current issue handgun for ICE is the SIG P229R DAK 40 cal.
Ports of Entry at the land border and in international airports are run by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Office of Field Operations (CBP/OFO) and staffed by CBP Officers (CBPO) in dark blue uniforms. Interior check points and the borde areas between Ports of Entry are the responsibility of CBP / Border Patrol - Border Patrol Agents wear green uniforms. All CBP uniformed personnel are required to carry the issued HK 40 cal. Primarily the P2000's, with a few P2000sk's and a few old school USP compacts. All LEM V2.
I see what you did there, eh?
Interesting but the little green books work too.
What? What? It was targeted at a specific make?
Edit: Roger that.
Last edited by JHC; 03-30-2015 at 02:50 PM.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
We have 5 or 6 out of 600 with personal J frames for back up / off duty.. Mostly 442/642 though I have one supervisor with a 640.
I haven't gone through the spec beyond what has been posted here, but I'll do a little Red Teaming:
I realize every company has one now so it probably won't be an issue, but if I felt my gun company's non-polymer or hammer-fired gun provided better functionality you can be sure I'd challenge these requirements. It's like saying you want a car with a V6 engine. OK, you like V6 but if my V4 or V8 can provide the same performance what is your justification for these requirements?
I'm assuming everyone can meet that. Happy to hear they're also moving away from .40 in addition to the FBI and one other high-profile agency that will probably be making an announcement before the end of the year.15 round min capacity
9mm only (NO .40)
I'd like to know how this will be tested. As folks have explained here already, different models of different guns in different hands sometimes will and sometimes won't. I've yet to find a polymer framed gun that absolutely will not autoforward under any circumstance. There's also a so-so argument to be made that this requirement is bad to begin with but it would be a weak last grasp."The slide shall not return to battery by the action of inserting a loaded magazine into the firearm"
Again, who is doing the shooting? Will the same person test all guns under the same circumstances at the same angle with the same grip strength for all rounds? There will have to be some sort of quantitative method of determining go-nogo on this."The discharged cartridge shall not eject in a manner that hits the shooter upon firing the firearm"
Unless they have some weird concept of "permanent" this seems pretty universal. It's worth noting that the SIG P22x-series guns were considered to meet that same requirement during ICE's last procurement. "Operated by" needs a bit more detail."The firearm shall be operated by a right or left handed shooter without permanent modification"
In what will eventually become yet another lost story in the gun industry, John Stewart of SIGforum deserves the credit for essentially changing how most of us want our sights to work these days. Having a huge fed customer demand a high-viz front sight is awesome."The sights shall include 3-dot tritium night sights with the front dot being a different color than the rear dots. Additionally, the front sight shall have photo luminescent paint to assist in rapid sight acquisition"
Wasn't it five of each model last time? This is going to cost the American taxpayers a fortune if each company has 2+ models that meet the requirement. For example, without seeing the dimensional specs if the G19, G17, G34, and G17L all were allowed Glock would absolutely submit them all. That's four bites at the apple instead of just one, and 600k rounds of ammo that will go downrange as fast as triggers can be pulled.As far as testing:
15 guns and 52 mags per model submitted.
This is where the polymer/striker thing could come up again. Let's suppose I run SIG. If I can get aluminum framed guns allowed (if they make weight, etc. what is it about aluminum itself that makes a gun bad?) and hammer fired guns in (again, what is the performance issue?) then I've got P229, P226, P250 (don't even know how many sizes/configs), P320 (don't know how many sizes/configs) and that's a lot of chances to have something come out on top. Put another way, if there is some flaw with one of the P320 Compacts and it throws the entire model out of contention, there are plenty of backup models from my company.
Based on the BP 96D Brig memories, ICE has always been paranoid about letting any gun stay in service past 10k rounds. This same "desired not required" was in the last solicitation that got them the SIGs and HKs. The technology just isn't there yet.
I noticed that the solicitation is for "A" new service pistol. No mention of full size/back up combo.
A little gossip and whispering indicates they are looking for a single issue pistol like a Glock 19. Big enough for duty, small enough for concealment/off duty. I think that the size dimensions listed will cut down on the number of pistols submitted. IF (this is my theory only) they go with one issue pistol, they cut down on the amount of ammo used for qualification and save even more money. CBP/BP issue only one pistol. Perhaps ICE is heading that way? If so, I hope they keep personal purchase back ups. It will cut down in ammo use since not everyone will buy their own back up. Many Agents are just too cheap.
As far as the requirements of striker/polymer/etc, those were derived from a survey of 6500 gun carriers. They all wanted smaller, lighter, lighter trigger pull, more capacity... I am assuming HQ listened and is trying to give the people what they want? Not sure if that will survive a protest, but the old "we tried that style gun and the troops did not like it" could be at work here.
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
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