mag flip

[breakingtime91]

Wanted to get some of your opinions on the AR15 "maglfip" while speed reloading. I have been getting in friendly arguments with my shooting partner because I don't see it as needed and not a booster for speed compared to more "traditional" methods. So besides flinging the magazine out what does it really accomplish compared to other techniques?

some of the cons I see
-it is only really viable while standing or on the move, other than that I don't think its very practical for other shooting positions.
-excessive technique for what most be done
-in my experience it isn't faster

[rob_s]

Not that I'm defending this particular gun kata, but it's generally pretty misunderstood. It's not about flinging the mag out, or at least it didn't start that way, but about visually checking the ejection port with the idea of checking the cause of the failure to go bang.

That said, I'm not a fan of these gyrations, and if people are doing it to fling the mag free, doubly so.

[lightning fast]

Frank Proctor makes fun of people doing it, if that tells you anything.

[SamuelBLong]

There's nothing good about it other than it looking cool. The "technique" so to speak wasn't actually intended to aid removal of the mag, but was simply a byproduct of checking the bolt & chamber after the gun stopped going bang.

Excessive rotation of the gun causes you to have inconsistent reference of the magwell, and slows you down as you try and index the magwell and new mag during the reload.

It is much more efficient and faster to let gravity do the work of removing the old mag while the gun is in vertical alignment - mag release then bring the gun in, rather than "flip"





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[Dagga Boy]

Discussed this with Costa and the flip is simply a by-product to the process of checking the chamber visually. Most doing it don't know why, they are working so fast they don't see what they need to see, there is that whole "night thing", and I prefer a consistent place for the gun to be during a reload rather than incorporating a bunch of additional movement. I also think the emergency bolt lock reload is one of the most over rated skill sets people spend time on with the carbine. The real need to shave some sliver of time after you have sent 30 or more rounds down range in the United States is not likely to be the skill that saves your life outside of a war zone.

[rob_s]

In the context of people that only own, shoot, and train with firearms is SHTFantasy, I'd agree with you. And, even for the hard-core gamer the bolt-lock reload, or even a reload at all these days, with the carbine is almost nill.

That said, it's also not rocket surgery. And it can be easily practiced at home without any special time or equipment, provided a good foundation of instruction on some of the minutiae like where to look, where to index, where to grip the mag, etc. Which is also why the Jazz hands flipping technique is further both not a good thing but also attractive to many. Since the people that introduced the masses to this technique are also the originators of entertrainment, it strikes me that the technique was always about choreography and what looks good on film as anything else.

Now every Japanese airsoft video has 15 year olds running around flip-flopping their empty BB resevoirs all over their mom's living room.

Eject the empty mag, retrieve the full mag, insert the mag, release the bolt. It's not complicated. There are various religions about the minutiae (beer can or bullets front, eject empty or strip empty, bolt catch or chasing handle, index on front of magwell or rear, look at the magwell or look at the target, etc.) but otherwise its pretty easy to get down with a couple of dry fire sessions.

[1911Nut]

I am obviously way behind the curve on this. Can anyone point me to a video depicting the referenced "mag flip"?

Thanks.

[secondstoryguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEEEy1dMceI

[Default.mp3]

I am obviously way behind the curve on this. Can anyone point me to a video depicting the referenced "mag flip"?

Thanks.

One of the two popularizers of the whole flip thing (which as many have noted above, is largely misunderstood) is Travis Haley, back when original Art of the Dynamic Carbine stuff was high speed shit (his partner in the videos, Chris Costa, is the other). He talks a bit more about it here:

He talks about the overall technique of IDing the chamber at ~3:15, and gets to the mag flip itself at ~4:25. Note that Magpul Dynamics (now known as Magpul Core) stopped teaching that after both instructors left.

I rarely shoot carbine as it is, and the few times I do, I always transition rather than do a speed reload.