Adequacy Of Buffalo Bore .45 ACP +P 230 gr JHP

[Totem Polar]

Black bears and especially mountain lions are NOT that hard to bring down. Just use your regular duty/carry loads.

I was going to say this as well. Assuming you see a cougar first, your carry load will do. The bigger issue is that they can be stealthy critters.

[JonInWA]

Good point on the cougars. The good news is, we'll be hiking as a group-I'd think that there would be a significantly higher risk factor if I was hiking alone, where a hungry carnivore might perceive that I was a weaker/weakened animal cut from the heard, and thus more appealing snack bait.

On the other hand, last year's devastating fires in the region (including immediately where I'll be) might make for some more aggressive behaviors from predators, especially if deprived of their normal/easier food sources...

Taking in the input, I think I'll 1) Test the Buffalo Bore 230 gr +P JHPs that I have for cycling/functioning/accuracy, and then (assuming it passes acceptability criteria) 2) have at least a magazine of them on hand along with my standard-pressure 230 gr Golden Sabers and Hydra-Shoks normal carry loads.

Actually, taking in all the information provided, especially regarding black bears (versus grizzly), I kind of like going the JHP route, as Im now feeling that they provide a nicely acceptable dual approach to human and animal predators.

Again, thanks to all for the input and participation (and feel free to keep it coming). I'll let everyone know the results of my pre-use testing, such as it'll be.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Might be marginally better than what you have now, but since I value reliability ahead of terminal performance in a semi auto, I would only carry it if you shot enough to satisfy yourself it was as reliable as your current load. My experience with Glock pistols, especially the 20/29, is that the "hotter and heavier" you go in a particular caliber, the closer to the edge of the reliability envelope you go. If I was focused on penetration, I would carry a .40 over .45acp -- assuming you have one.

Cats are soft targets, and I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 9 with good bullets for them, and even for a black bear.

I do have a .40-my FH Hi Power, and some excellent Federal 180 gr HST, but I prefer to stick with the Glock for outdoor use, as it's a bit more weather impervious, and I feel that I have an acceptable cartridge/cartridge mix on hand for it (both for my 9mm and .45 ACP Glocks). Good point, though.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

here is your bear load, courtesy of JHC:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_hg_0208_01/

[5pins]

Wouldn’t under penetration with a hollow points be a concern with bears?

When I lived in eastern Washington I would carry a 1911 with a hot 230gr ball handload.

[Chuck Haggard]

Wouldn’t under penetration with a hollow points be a concern with bears?

When I lived in eastern Washington I would carry a 1911 with a hot 230gr ball handload.

Maybe, but I think JHPs are more likely to grab on a skull shot than FMJs, so there's that consideration

[JonInWA]

Wouldn’t under penetration with a hollow points be a concern with bears?

When I lived in eastern Washington I would carry a 1911 with a hot 230gr ball handload.

My initial though was that it would be, but some of the research that I've done indicates that black bears tend to retreat when exposed to noise/pain (grizzlys, on the other hand...), so that makes the JHP a viable alternative-especially an amped-up JHP. Keep in mind that my research on this is not all that in-depth, so anyone with greater expereince/advice would be welcome to contribute to the thread.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

here is your bear load, courtesy of JHC:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_hg_0208_01/

For years I indeed did prefer .357 SIG as an outdoor/wilderness cartridge, having various SIG P229s, a Sigpro 2340, and a Beretta C8357 Cougar chambered for it. At the end of the day, I found the SIG P229s to be to bulky and clunky (relatively speaking), the Sigpro to have a high bore axis and seemingly requiring disproportonate time to master well to take full advantage of, and the Cougar had significant reliability issues and sight issues (Beretta simply used the sights for the .40 8340, which wasn't a great solution, and it's not as if there were multiple sight option for Cougars-and then there were the reliability issues...that killed that gun pretty quickly.

.357 SIG ammunition seems to be more available recently, so a Gen4 Glock G31, or a Gen4 G22 with a .357 SIG barrel might be a great solution, and is somewhat on my future Glock acquisition radar. But for now, I'm working with what I've got.

Best, Jon

[Chuck Haggard]

This sort of talk is why I have yet to list the gen 4 G31 I have and put it up for sale, even though I've been meaning to sell it for well over a year now.

[JonInWA]

This sort of talk is why I have yet to list the gen 4 G31 I have and put it up for sale, even though I've been meaning to sell it for well over a year now.

Chuck, since the introduction of the Gen4, my thoughts have always been that the primary beneficiaries of the Gen4 features (especially the Gen4 RSA) would be the higher pressure/higher intensity cartridge chambered Glocks-those in .40, .357 SIG and 10mm. My eventual intention is to get a Gen4 G22, and a Gen4 .357 SIG barrel to go with it. In my opinion, the Gen4 features applied to those chamberings (especially those in .40 and .357 SIG) transform the G22, G35, G23, G27, G31, G32, and G33 from a 9mm platform lightly made-over (and in my opinion, in the long run, insufficiently insofar as long-term/high roundcount usage is concerned) into a much more sturdy caliber/use centric Glocks in those cartridge chamberings.

It would be very interesting to compare how the Gen4 RSA favorably affects the handling characteristics/split times with a compact G32-if the recoil impulse is suitably decreased, the G32 could be a very, very viable woods/mountain biking Glock choice. However, until someone credible tests, I'll default to the G22/G31.

Best, Jon