Fairfax County Ad Hoc Police Commission

[K.O.A.M.]

You can do a no-knock entry in Florida. There's no such thing as a no-knock warrant on the state side of things. Commander on the scene makes the decision and has to justify it later. The cases that have upheld no knock decisions are ones where LE could articulate credible evidence of firearms and occupant history of actively and violently resisting law enforcement, or a threat to someone's life that was more than abstract (hostage job). I've never seen a no-knock executed in my 14 years of experience.

[Gray222]

You can do a no-knock entry in Florida. There's no such thing as a no-knock warrant on the state side of things. Commander on the scene makes the decision and has to justify it later. The cases that have upheld no knock decisions are ones where LE could articulate credible evidence of firearms and occupant history of actively and violently resisting law enforcement, or a threat to someone's life that was more than abstract (hostage job). I've never seen a no-knock executed in my 14 years of experience.

Interesting.

We have to apply for special approval from our chain of command before we ever show up to the house. This process started a few years ago, before that we did no-knocks all the time, especially when we knew it was the guy was violent, dangerous and/or armed. Of them we only ever did them during the day, we had to provide proof of special circumstances for night warrants and even then I remember only doing two and one was a knock and announce.

The new policy we use is a lot better in my opinion as if things start to get interesting we just hold it as a barricaded person and let the detectives try to get the guy to come out. Downside is we've had a lot of evidence flushed so I have heard of one of our narc. units get the water dept to shut down and block the tubes from a specific house before a warrant (no one ever suspects the water dept. working in front of your house to be suspect) and that's only when there is an outlet to do so, sometimes there isn't.

Since I've been back in patrol we are allowed to run warrant service but they "frown" on it, we still do, but it has to be daylight and it has to be knock and announce, we very rarely get "dangerous" warrants to serve since the main swat unit and narc units do all that.

[cclaxton]

The final approved Use of Force document is available for review. I have extracted the following section from the recommendations, which seem like they are a step in the right direction from what we had before, which was nothing...which led to many police officers never using low ready.
Here is the extract, but please read the entire document which takes a very comprehensive look at Use of Force by Fairfax Police.
"f. Institute the following use of firearms requirements, by establishing or clarifying that:i. the act of a police officer placing his or her weapon “in a ready gun position” at asuspect will be a reportable action [NOTE: Un-holstering his or her weapon, pointingdownward toward the ground next to an officer’s leg, with finger on frame of weapon, isnot to be a reportable action in the context of this policy as officers may do so whenthey reasonably believe or know suspects are nearby, i.e., entering a dark building, alley,other location of concern.];ii. the “ready gun” position is defined as pointing the weapon, with finger on the frame ofthe weapon, so the officer can see the suspect’s hands and waist.;iii. the officer must announce “Police!” after and not before attaining the “ready gun”position and if feasible followed by simple, specific and clear direction to the suspect;iv. the “ready gun” position will be utilized in the specific circumstance where it isnecessary to establish control and gain compliance through the pointing of a firearm;10 “Objectively Reasonable and the Totality of Circumstances” can be found in I.B.1-3 (p. 2) in the Use of Force Policy, Guidelinesand Procedures Handbook, Office of Training Development, HB 4500-01C of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.Report of the Use of Force SubcommitteeAd Hoc Police Review CommissionSeptember 14, 201520v. the pointing of the firearm will be considered non-deadly use of force in thiscircumstance if the weapon is not aimed at center of mass, which is normally the chest;andvi. an officer’s finger should be moved from the frame to the trigger of a weapon only if theuse of deadly force is authorized under the objectively reasonable standard, whichwould exclude pointing a weapon at center of mass simply for control and complianceunder the “ready gun” position addressed in iv. above."
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/policec...port_final.pdf
Cody

[Dagga Boy]

Great.....I forsee what we call "dangling" to be used extensively in a way it shouldn't be in order to not have a reportable use of force. You just went from no policy to a poorly written one....

[SLG]

Great.....I forsee what we call "dangling" to be used extensively in a way it shouldn't be in order to not have a reportable use of force. You just went from no policy to a poorly written one....

Defi n itely a poor improvement. How will they search a building, for instance?

[Dagga Boy]

Defi n itely a poor improvement. How will they search a building, for instance?

If they are smart......they won't. Unfortunately, most will do it wrong to avoid paperwork and self generating attention. They should force the agency to get the policy right....but that likely won't happen either as its career suicide. Nothing like going from one fail to another fail.

We had a local agency that had a paper seal around their shotguns fore end, if you broke the seal....you had to report it and write up why. Guess what happened.....may well as not had a shotgun in the car, as they were almost never used, and if they were deployed,no round was chambered. I saw this first hand when I asked a guy with a shotgun at a hot scene what the hell was around the fore end....his response was "if I rack it I have to cut paper, so we usually never rack them". Yea....we created an appearance of something good and made officers, AND the citizens less safe in the long run rather than just properly train officers how to effectively deploy a shotgun as a tool....and proper application of force. I mean why would you want to properly train rather than just have some lawyer who doesn't know jack shit about cop work write a policy that sounds good to a lawyer who watched four episodes of COPs and liked Adam 12 as a kid.

[cclaxton]

If they are smart......they won't. Unfortunately, most will do it wrong to avoid paperwork and self generating attention. They should force the agency to get the policy right....but that likely won't happen either as its career suicide. Nothing like going from one fail to another fail.

We had a local agency that had a paper seal around their shotguns fore end, if you broke the seal....you had to report it and write up why. Guess what happened.....may well as not had a shotgun in the car, as they were almost never used, and if they were deployed,no round was chambered. I saw this first hand when I asked a guy with a shotgun at a hot scene what the hell was around the fore end....his response was "if I rack it I have to cut paper, so we usually never rack them". Yea....we created an appearance of something good and made officers, AND the citizens less safe in the long run rather than just properly train officers how to effectively deploy a shotgun as a tool....and proper application of force. I mean why would you want to properly train rather than just have some lawyer who doesn't know jack shit about cop work write a policy that sounds good to a lawyer who watched four episodes of COPs and liked Adam 12 as a kid.

So, how would you rework the policy to improve it or fix it?
I can work with my Supervisor to work on changing the policy.
Cody

[TheRoland]

This be clear, this policy prevents the gun from being a ready position while doing things like searching a building?

I get that this county has had more than its share of NDs into innocents and wrong-door raids but this seems somewhat unreasonable. This policy goes way beyond muzzling people.

[Dagga Boy]

I am going to send Cody some ideas and will post some of my thoughts in a separate thread in regards to policy specifics.

[cclaxton]

This be clear, this policy prevents the gun from being a ready position while doing things like searching a building?

I get that this county has had more than its share of NDs into innocents and wrong-door raids but this seems somewhat unreasonable. This policy goes way beyond muzzling people.

I don't think so. My reading of the intent is that an officer is allowed to be in the low-ready (not pointed in the direction of movement) while moving through a house. But when encountering a suspect, may raise the muzzle towards the suspect, but not at COM in order to get compliance. They may only focus COM when the suspect shows a weapon, makes a threatening movement or refuses to comply with commands to show their hands under the "totality of the circumstances" doctrine.
That is my read, but I am sure those in LE will read it with more scrutiny. The idea being that if they don't encounter a suspect during a search, they don't need to report the weapon out of the holster. But once they put a muzzle on someone they do. But I look for Darryl to clarify how he reads it.
Cody