Fairfax County Ad Hoc Police Commission

[SLG]

I will still follow up with the AUSA's office on monday.

So, I did ask some pointed questions of an excellent AUSA earlier this week. I will ask one more, who also posts on these boards when I get a chance.

Suffice it to say, his answer really shocked me, and I will not post it here. Sanitized version is: Not only did he not see muzzling as a crime in any way, but he thinks that "we" have a lot more leeway in using lethal force than I think we do. So, he is now my on call lawyer:-)
You have to remember though, that he is really only concerned about what the 4th Amendment says, not some elected or appointed official who can't read a dictionary.

[GJM]

I will bet you a dollar, as an outgrowth of what has been happening, that in the next few years a whole bunch of procedures related to use of force get looked at closely by politicians, activists and the public at large.

[BJJ]

I will bet you a dollar, as an outgrowth of what has been happening, that in the next few years a whole bunch of procedures related to use of force get looked at closely by politicians, activists and the public at large.

That's already happening. Pretty sure it's been happening since about last August.

[John Hearne]

Article with some info on how different circuits have handled pointing weapons at suspects:
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001YWiDq...FUgNOFUdt8cw==

[GJM]

Article with some info on how different circuits have handled pointing weapons at suspects:
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001YWiDq...FUgNOFUdt8cw==

John, very interesting -- thanks for posting this.

The obvious question, that the court did not appear to consider, was whether there was an alternative that would have balanced the safety concerns of the officer with the concerns of the muzzled. That alternative in this instance, of course, was for the officer to draw his pistol to a ready position, with the muzzle not covering the person.

[TSH]

I will bet you a dollar, as an outgrowth of what has been happening, that in the next few years a whole bunch of procedures related to use of force get looked at closely by politicians, activists and the public at large.

http://oemp.level2hosting.com/system...ge/15_0010.pdf

[Erick Gelhaus]

http://oemp.level2hosting.com/system...ge/15_0010.pdf

Do you have a source for the full text of that proposed initiative?

[TSH]

Do you have a source for the full text of that proposed initiative?

I wasn't able to find a specific law they want passed. The CA state website says basically the same thing as the proposed initiative I posted.

[Dagga Boy]

So, I did ask some pointed questions of an excellent AUSA earlier this week. I will ask one more, who also posts on these boards when I get a chance.

Suffice it to say, his answer really shocked me, and I will not post it here. Sanitized version is: Not only did he not see muzzling as a crime in any way, but he thinks that "we" have a lot more leeway in using lethal force than I think we do. So, he is now my on call lawyer:-)
You have to remember though, that he is really only concerned about what the 4th Amendment says, not some elected or appointed official who can't read a dictionary.

May want to forward his number to McKinney PD........

[cclaxton]

That's already happening. Pretty sure it's been happening since about last August.

This ball is rolling and IMHO the efforts should be to focus "policies" on the training department and training philosophy rather than focus policies/rules on officers. Based on what I have learned here in these forums and in direct discussions, the talking points should focus on increasing budgets for training LE, adding more CIT training, and creating policies that guide training so that officers can manage the Use of Force Continuum effectively and confidently. If they don't get adequate training, the number of shootings from officers who draw their firearms and point them too early in the incident will rise. And, when it rises more unsavory media exposure and the more politicians will want to micromanage. Seems to me LE has to get ahead of this or face onerous policies and rules and consequences.
Cody